Steve Macabee (00:15.022)

Right then, welcome back once again to the P-Pod, the partnership podcast from the Somerset Safeguarding Children Partnership. And as you know, when anything major is ever published, we like to bring you an update episode just informing you of some of the things to be aware of, particularly in relation to changes in statutory guidance or legislation. And this one is particularly pertinent for schools and education settings and earlier settings today, because I am sure you are more than aware that each year we have an update to Keeping children safe in education, and many years have an update to the EYFS as well. And for the last couple of years, education settings, I'm sure around the country have been a bit relieved that there've not been any major updates for a couple of years in a row. However, you're probably aware there have been quite a number of quite significant updates this year, primarily really in response to some of the changes in legislation and guidance, like working together to safeguard children, but the Children's Wellbeing and Schools Act, and many more which all went through in April of this year. So we have the experts in the field. We've got Beth and Harry with me today, who are from Somerset Council's Education Safeguarding Service. Guys, how are you doing?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(01:16.706)

Steve, it's great to join you. Thanks for giving us the opportunity to come and chat. But yeah, it's really nice. And obviously we talk together a lot anyway on the DSL briefings and the early years briefings and for the safeguarding update. So it's nice to talk to you in this room. Yeah, thanks so much for having us, Steve.

Steve Macabee (01:30.824)

Great. Thanks for coming on. And I do really appreciate it because that there have been a number of things that have changed this year and there is a lot to for people to get their heads around. And obviously we're going to be able cover absolutely everything today in terms of those changes, but we did want to bring you those key highlights and particularly those bits that people needed to be aware of for the new academic year. And unfortunately, as I'm sure you and schools are aware, the updated version didn't actually get published until almost right at the end of the academic year.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(01:57.526)

Yeah, we we had them very busy a couple of weeks of the information was delayed. Catherine was went through a webinar emotion from the DFE and they were they were absolutely not, they were not going to share a particular date. They were not going to say when it was coming out, but it was later than expected. So yeah, the the delay is not on us, it's on them. But now we've tried to support settings where possible. We try our very best, knowing that the pressure schools are under to get this out and well, schools and early year settings, to get these updates sorted and agreed and knowing how they're going to introduce those changes and train staff around those changes, we obviously try and get those out as soon as possible and in the best time. So we have already released the updated child protection and safeguarding policy for school settings. That was sent out last week actually to all head teachers and DSLs. So hopefully everybody has that if they want to use it and they can use it and adapt it for their own settings.

So all of the changes in KCSiE are reflected in our child protection and safeguarding policy, updated 2026 version. So it's available on our webpage and it's been sent out to everybody. But obviously we're not going to discuss every single tiny change in there, but it's just to give that overview and the reassurance as well in relation to safeguarding, to settings that everyone's doing the right thing in relation to the new statutory dates.

Steve Macabee (03:11.672)

And I guess one thing just to stress is obviously at the moment, we're just for people's awareness, we're recording this right at the end of of August. Obviously this all comes into force as of the first of September. And potentially there may be some last minute changes that might come out or may not. We don't know at this stage. So can we start off with with yourself talking about keeping children safe in education? I mean that there have been a a number of small but significant changes that have come in.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(03:35.928)

They have. And one of those is that I I guess the first point that I'd like to make and just raising that awareness in relation to KCSiE. And clearly people listening to this are going to be part of school settings and they're probably already over this. But the first point I guess is one of the biggest practical changes this year is now that everybody needs to read part one, keeping children safe in education. And I shortened that to KCSiE just because it reels off the tongue a little bit better. So I'm sorry if that annoys anyone, but the amount of times in a day I say keeping children safe in education. It's kind of useful to just say KCSiE.

Steve Macabee (04:06.87)

All right, should we should we all should we agree from this point forward is KCSiE?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(04:10.23)

We loving that, we need another one, don't we? Previously some staff could read Annex A as a shorter version, but that option has now gone. And I guess the message for schools in relation to this are that safeguarding is everyone's responsibility, whatever your role. And the expectation is the same now for all staff, which actually in some ways makes things a lot easier.

Steve Macabee (04:30.414)

Am I right thinking? I think there's a summary. There is a summary there. However, staff still need to read the whole of part one. You can read the summary to get an overview, but still read the whole thing.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(04:39.34)

Yeah, you're right. The new part one overview supports but does not replace actual part one. So there's part one overview and there's part one. So everybody needs to read part one. And then, you know, schools really should review how they record and evidence their staff reading all of part one. I know many schools do this brilliantly. We revisit many schools in many settings, don't we? And we have a look at that from an evidential perspective and most schools are all up to that and it's really clear who has read it, who's agreed that they've read it and signed to document that they've done so to evidence that their staff have read it. And that's really important because anybody, right, could just go, yeah, yeah, I've read because they're busy. Or we all say how busy we are all the time. We know that we are all totally very busy people.

However, safeguarding is so ultimately an important in schools and it underpins everything that education stands for and learning that happens and we make no apology for it. It's incredibly important and should be the most important thing. And then everything else is based on top of

Steve Macabee (05:35.714)

When we're saying everybody, are we including non paid staff, governors, trustees? Yeah, everybody.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(05:40.302)

Everybody should be reading part one. So school should also make sure that their induction is updated to include everybody who's coming in should be reading part one and it's evidenced. It's evidenced that they've read it, but then then what? Yeah, how do you know that they've read it? So a useful thing would be beyond that to hold some kind of quiz or questionnaire and send it out to all of your staff that with some of the changes and some of the information just to ensure they've read it and understood it. You've checked that knowledge and then you can go back and use your safeguarding time or meeting time with staff to address perhaps areas where your staff are coming back and they haven't quite got that information or haven't understood it correctly. So it would be useful to use their time wisely to just not just assume that everyone's read it, but to check the what then. And for those of us that have Beth, Catherine and I to visit, tests and knowledge checks is something that we talk about probably on every visit. So that's something that we would encourage settings to do is a test and knowledge check once they've read part one.

Steve Macabee (06:36.206)

Okay. Now I mentioned as well at the start of this that obviously there's been a lot of changes to things like working together to safeguard children. We've had the Children's Wellbeing and Schools Act, which now come into force ab as of April. Also sort of coming through nationally and being developed is the family's first partnership programme as well. And I know some of the changes we've got in here are kind of very much focused around that that ethos around working with families, engaging with families as early as possible. And I know there's a bit of a focus around early help and family help. Do you be able to talk about that a little bit?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(07:04.6)

So the language is changing from early help to family help, but the principle remains exactly the same. And schools remain crucial in identifying any emerging needs for children and their families. They're so well placed to identify that. And some of the relationships that school have with their young people and their students is fantastic. And so they're they're aware, they can see and they can note those small changes, which is really important to be able to be professionally curious enough to ask those further questions about how things really are and support those children and families where needed. And this reflects the national families' first reforms and a greatest focus on supporting families as a whole. We know that they're working together to include education in some of those conversations at a much earlier stage.

Steve Macabee (07:45.304)

So with that Beth, would you advise in terms of policies, for example, the education settings go through their policies and make sure that language aligns? 

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(07:54.188)

Yes, good point. But actually if schools are using our local author Somerset Council Local Authority um's child protection safeguarding policy, we've already updated the language to amend where it was before. So it was already done for you if you want to use us. Please don't feel the need to reinvent it. So

Steve Macabee (08:07.598)

There you go, perfect. Lovely. And thank you. And the other the other thing I know from going through it and updating all of our training material, for example, and we know this won't be a surprise, but year on year there've been more of a focus, understandably, around technology, around online safety and particularly now around things like AI technology. Do you want can you update us on that? On these changes here?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(08:27.884)

Yeah, so the it's the first time really that KCSiE have explicitly addressed the safeguarding risks associated with AI and deepfakes and notification apps and AI generated imagery. So I guess this is perhaps the most modern addition. AI is creating new safeguarding challenges that schools are already beginning to see. And schools are expected to consider these within their own online safety arrangements. So yeah, the message for schools are deep fakes and AI generated imagery can be used to bully, humiliate, or exploit children. Vacation apps are highlighted as an emerging risk. That's not new, it's just new in the legislation. Staff don't need to be AI experts. I think that's a real take-home from this. And but they do need to be professionally curious and understand what these things look like and understand the impact they can have on young people and the shame it can bring. And we want to try and alleviate that so that young people do come and talk to us when these things are happening. So they're not just buried in their shame because it can be incredibly embarrassing and young people don't always want to talk to people. So that comes back full circle to those really important, trusted relationships, isn't it, between young people and staff and schools.

Steve Macabee (09:33.57)

And obviously just in line with with other pieces of legislation and guidance as well, people are probably aware of this. But if we're talking about deep fakes, AI generated images, in terms of the law, they are still treated as if they are real people and real situations..

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(09:47.382)

Yeah, It's a criminal offence, isn't it? Potentially that could be there. So we're dealing with it in the same way. But equally, you know, good online safety education remains the best defence to this. So it's just those ongoing conversations that, you know, the learning for young people, the curriculum being met and addressed and it being revisited regularly so that young people are clear about what these things are, what they mean, and how they can report it because they can get help and support with it.

There's been ongoing conversations recently around schools' use of AI, even on their own websites, which is a huge challenge for schools, because not only do they want to celebrate their students online, they also want to promote their own settings, of course, and the brilliance that they each setting has with their young people and to be celebrated. And it's just such a sad reflection, isn't it, that we have to consider what might happen to those images and of course the parental consent around those images and how you can still support those things happening, but without the images being so clear and unobstructed that they could be used for AI imagery, you know, against that person's will or to make them embarrassed or shamed or whatever it might be. Or sexualized in the same way, which is not okay.

Steve Macabee (10:54.102)

Yeah, it's it's really challenging, isn't it? And I think AI technology is evolving so rapidly, really hard to keep up with it, I think. But but yeah, like you say, for the first time really embedding that within within KCSiE. So we talked about online safety as well. For a number of years, there's been the requirement around filtering and monitoring systems within settings to make sure that children aren't accessing inappropriate material within the IT systems within an education setting or any setting. And I think that links in as well around AI as well, doesn't it, Beth? So what have we got in there about that?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(11:21.506)

Yeah, it does. So this change reflects the accelerating pace of digital risk, essentially, and both in the tools children are exposed to and in how schools' own technical safeguards need to keep up. And it closes the ambiguity between about who within a school is responsible for the overview or for the review actually happening. So schools and colleges must review the effectiveness now of their filtering and monitoring system at least once every academic year. And so this is just on a clearer, more defined statutory footing than before around the guidance on staff roles and responsibilities for filtering and monitoring, it's also been clarified. So it really is talking about the filtering monitoring systems being reviewed at least once every academic year. So everyone is really, really clear that we're keeping up and your schools are part of or are ensuring the effectiveness of the filtering monitoring processes.

Steve Macabee (12:10.38)

Yeah, we've had the sort of growing focus around online safety, but also going back to God, where we were twenty twenty one now. The other big focus that there's been for many, many years following the Offstead National Automatic Review into sexual abuse and harassment in schools is around the topic of child on child abuse and harmful sexual behaviour, and more recently, much more of a focus around topics like misogyny, misandry. So what what's KCSiE got in w in there for us this year?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(12:35.308)

KCSiE really continues to build on like national learning around sexual abuse and harassment in education settings, as you just pointed out. So the harmful sexual behaviour receives greater prominence. There's a stronger focus on misogyny and violence against women and girls. Child and child abuse shouldn't be dismissed as banned. We've known that for some time, but it just underpins that further. And it just goes on to say again that prevention through culture, curriculum, and relationships remain key to sort of battling this and working with young people to try and eradicate this within our schools, the promotional use of healthy relationships and respect between people is also really key in that message, isn't it? So we're talking about the same things really, it's coming through everything. It's those key relationships, it's that communication between schools and young people. It's that openness to be available to support. And it's that open challenge that schools will have in relation to these changes within KCSiE.

Especially the child on child abuse, it's making sure that staff are really aware of what it is and they're not allowing banter to be excused as, you know, a choice of behaviour for a particular sex of child. And it's actually just addressing the culture in itself, isn't it? So it's considering whether the curriculum addresses the respectful relationships effectively as well, because the schools are having the same issues again and again. It might just be worth rethinking what that looks like. So if we change nothing, nothing changes.

Steve Macabee (13:55.906)

Beth as as well, I n I know one of the the large focuses in in a lot of things, including working together to safeguard children, is around tackling exploitation and serious youth violence. And I know there's been bits added into to KCSiE specifically around this and and things like weapons. So can you update us on that?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(14:11.15)

Absolutely. So staff must now report any concern about a child carrying or using a weapon or expressing intent to use a weapon should be reported directly to the DSL or the Deputy DSL. And then the DSL is expected to assess the risk to both the individual child and others and take a wider view of the child's circumstances rather than treating it as a potentially as an isolated incident. And so there's new recognition that a child displaying violent behaviour may themselves be at risk or in need of support and not simply a behavior or a discipline problem. So this sits along the rising concern about youth knife crime and follows debate in parliament this year, linked to serious violence guidance directly to grooming gangs and Operation Encompass, which is of course the police duty to notify school the next morning when a child has been present during a domestic abuse incident overnight. And the shift reflects a trauma-reformed approach. So violent behaviour is treated as a potential warning sign of victimization as well as a safeguarding risk to others. So what that means for our education settings is that the behaviour and safeguarding policies need to be clear. And there should not be an ambiguous reporting line to the DSL for any weapon-related concern. And as I've mentioned, our Somerset or Southwest policy, child protection safeguarding policy, does reflect that change. But of course, schools will need to look at their own behaviour policies to reflect that change. We don't have a Somerset behaviour policy because every setting is so completely individual and how they're going to manage those circumstances. And so we couldn't create that.

Steve Macabee (15:35.902)

And I think with that not just thinking about within the school setting as well, isn't it? I it's also thinking about what are those potential points at risk, times of risk. KCSiE thinks about maybe just straight after school.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(15:46.23)

about those schools having awareness of what's happening and where their potential trigger points are for youth violence. And very often it's saying, isn't it, that it's you know after school or between from the end of school up to about 6 pm. So it's about schools considering how they manage that, how they look out for it, how they can support around it. No one's expecting school to be in bouncers and door staff, but essentially it's just having that awareness of the students leaving site and arrival on our site and what they might be leaving to. They're just a consideration about what that looks like in our local community. And who else the schools can use to support them with that? With there any messages or if there's a particular heightened area or community issue around a park or around a particular alleyway or whatever, then they can use liaison with our policing colleagues to support with the identification of those particular problem areas and also how we can work together to reduce the risks for our young people around those areas.

Steve Macabee (16:34.026)

So yeah, do make sure you're kind of familiar with that for anybody listening to this if you're not, 'cause so it is something that is still an issue, still we need to address. And particularly thinking about what we're linking in with a moment ago, talking about things like online safety and digital harms that that could be there as well. And obviously one of the big focuses around safeguarding f and one of those key themes that goes on year on year on year, not just for education settings but for all agency partners, is around the importance of information sharing. And obviously going back to April 2024 we had the update to the information sharing guidance which came out and obviously we had some changes in relation to that. But in particular, that has been strengthened even more this year. And again, in September of this year, we are expecting the publication of the new information sharing duty, which places statutory responsibility around information sharing. So obviously KCSiE's been updated in relation to that. So, what's KCSiE telling us about information sharing here?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(17:22.786)

Well, the guidance is a stronger emphasis on effective information sharing, record keeping, and the transferring of safeguarding information. There's no major surprises here, but it does reinforce something safeguarding professionals have always known, which is that good decisions put on good information. And so it's about schools recording concerns promptly, ensuring safeguarding records are transferred securely when children move school, in line with the timescales that are provided. And it's useful to highlight that there are timescales provided here within five working days, KCSiE states that those files should be transferred. And that's the file itself. We would expect that good work would be to have conversations. If there's a if you have a student leaving your setting going to another and there are some concerns, whether that be there on child protection or a child in need plan or even a lower level, and I can't open to fears for some wider than universal support or if there's any ongoing concerns around that people experiencing exploitation, or if there's any risks around domestic abuse, we don't want those risks to be missed because support could be delayed if that information is not shared. And the information could be a conversation first instance. So one DSL to another to share the information. This child is coming to you, this is what we know about them. We have these particular concerns or they have this particular history from a safeguarding perspective, which you must know about because your duty to ensure that they are supported and protected. And also to just continue anything that the first setting might have in place, which has been really beneficial for that young person. So it's useful to just have the conversation so that it's not just the safeguarding files to be transferred, although of course that's what KCSiE's referring to, but it is that general information that can be useful for one setting from another.

And that information really should be shared on day one. It shouldn't wait for five days for the final to catch up. If there's those kind of safeguarding risks, concerns, considerations, or you have anything implemented or in place for young people to support them over and above the next student, my advice is that that is shared immediately. So the new setting can pick that up and implement that support. So that the support is ongoing. It's always seamless from one setting to a more.

Steve Macabee (19:29.614)

And although the information sharing guidance came out a couple of years ago now, I I think broadly across most agencies, there's still that bit of hesitation there to be seeking and sharing information in relation to safeguarding children. So I say on the back of that, the government are strengthening the guidance to a new duty which comes out this year, which just really stresses that we all have a responsibility, a statutory responsibility to safeguard children and as part of that, seeking and sharing information. So with that update, once that comes out, again we are going to be doing another podcast specifically on the update, do you think?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(19:59.874)

That'll be really helpful for settings. And I guess, Steve, here it's about never assuming that somebody else already knows. Really? So we need to share that information and make that wider rather than just assuming that's their role, they will do that. Fizz will update somebody of that. The social worker will update someone of that. Or what if that's closed in the meantime and school hold that appreciated information that no one else knows about? So it's just making sure that there's no stone unturned, pass the information on as you know it so it's seamless to the next student, make a record of that on your own system so you know exactly what's been shared, and then you're

Steve Macabee (20:05.272)

Absolutely.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(20:27.214)

insider's covered and that young person has got the best support you can possibly provide.

Steve Macabee (20:31.448)

Okay, so just moving on then, I know one of the areas of the update this year, which has had some level of controversy around it, is around children questioning their their gender and transitioning. And I know there's quite a lot for the first time included within KCSiE to really sort of tackle this issue head on. So can we go through through some of those points?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(20:51.842)

Yeah, absolutely. So the guidance frames this as a safeguarding matter and emphasises careful individual consideration of each child's circumstances. So the key messages are for schools to take a cautious, child centred approach to any gender questioning children or young people. And that the child's welfare remains paramount in all of this, so they are central to any of the decisions that are made. And parents should be involved, unless doing so would of course place the child at risk of significant harm and any decision should be made and considered carefully with the safeguarding needs at the forefront. Advice can be sought really where safeguarding situations are complex. Generally, in these matters, they are quite complex because there's lots of requests to school from the young people themselves, from the parents, and settings not only have responsibility for those individual children, but also the wider school cohort. And they are answerable to everybody's parents.

So they need to be really clear of what a role can and cannot be in kicks. It goes into greater detail of what you can and cannot do as a school setting. It goes into details of, you know, changing rooms and toilets and things like that. So there's this much more detail and emphasis in relation to what you can and can't do. But it it's very clear that every situation is to be taken on an independent, a case by case situation and with the forefront of the young person in mind and the safeguarding of them to consider their safety, well being and their potential ongoing transition or not, as the case may be. They could change their mind and that needs to be considered as well.

Steve Macabee (22:19.116)

Yeah, like you mentioned, there are quite a few specific pieces within KCSiE this year around this topic. So I think people really need to read that in detail and make sure they're they're really clear about it and r really clear about exactly what that looks like in their individual setting because, you know, the situations and what have you are going to be different in different settings. So make sure that your policies and everything else aligned to the new KCSiE guidance.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(22:40.95)

Yeah, and the practice in your school as well. So it is obviously it has to be guidance centred and child centred, but y think about it before it comes, I guess, because these things are are becoming increasingly discussed in schools. And so it's useful for schools to consider what would we do if. So if we don't have that happening at the moment, if it did come across your desk on that day one, how are we gonna approach this? What are we gonna do? It would be a careful, considered child centred approach, but how what does that look like in practice in your setting? Because every setting, as you just pointed out, is completely individual from the way that where toilets are accessed or by different year groups or by different sexes, because actually some are unisex toilets now and it it just goes on and on. So there are different considerations for every single setting. So the best thing they can do is really get to grips with that and kicks in have a look at those specifics. And that would be really helpful as a as a starter for 10 when these things invariably will come across your desk when you least expect it when you're about to do something different. And it t it requires an awful lot of thought, consideration and skill and communication to get that right for the young person, their families and your wider school setting.

Steve Macabee (23:43.692)

I think for me there's one other point that I just wanted to stress in relation to the update to KCSiE this year. I mentioned earlier things like the Family's First Partnership Programme. Beth, I know you referred earlier to terminology changing, changing from early help to family help. And you did mention then changes. Just something I want to stress, I've had a few inquiries come into me already, is that obviously within KCSiE this year, it does stipulate that all education settings must be aware of the new arrangements that are in place. And we've had quite a bit of anxiety around that; what does this mean? What does it look like? What are the new arrangements? So I just wanted to stress as part of this recording that, like Beth mentioned earlier, currently within Somerset, and if anybody's listening from outside of Somerset area, listening from different local authority areas, this is going to be different for you. Each area is at different places with this. But currently within Somerset, I'm at the time of recording, just at the end of August in 2026, at the moment, it is still business as usual, no major changes taking place, other than sort of changes in terminology or away from early help to family help, for example. But in terms of new arrangements, there are no new arrangements at this precise point in time. And this is very much sort of work in progress as these changes are being made and implemented. The pathways of support are still exactly the same. And I think I mentioned earlier, the advice I would give around this for anybody is if you want to make sure you're up to date with all ESS information, make sure, you know, you do things like subscribing to the SSCP's learning bulletin, make sure you're checking out the website come along to Beth and Harry and Katherine's DSL briefings because anything will be communicated through things like the school's newsletters and everything else. But please don't panic in terms of having to know all these new changes because at the moment there aren't any new changes, but it is very much work in progress throughout this year.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(25:28.074)

Exactly that. And I think with any new changes that are coming up, it's going to be really exciting and useful for education because it's about including education in those conversations and those decisions much earlier. So I think that's coming. We're not there yet. So carry on as you are. It's really a change in terminology for now. And and any updates will be, of course, communicated in a really timely way with every setting in the way we always do it via bulletins, our school bulletins, SSEP information and the DSL briefings that happen on a termly basis. And if there's anything individualized that people are concerned about, then everybody has our email address educationsafeguardinglead@somerset.gov.uk and then any questions or any concerns can come directly to us and we will get to those. There's three of us that manage that mailbox so usually within a day we can get back to you.

Steve Macabee (26:08.502)

Thanks for that, Beth. And I know, coming to yourself, Harry, that there is within KCSiE focusing around the early years, 'cause obviously a lot of school settings have reception classes these days. So what have we got in in KCSiE about early years?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(26:23.362)

Yeah, so you are absolutely right about KCSiE applying to schools and colleges, but also many of the safeguarding principles also influence early years practices. And that, of course, includes the reception years within primary schools. So the most significant implications are around attendance. So early years settings should make sure that they are following up on those prolonged and unexpected absences really, really promptly, recognising absences as potential safeguarding indicators and maintaining those really accurate records of concern and making sure that those actions are taken. Within our team we have created an early years attendance policy. So that's going to be available for all early years settings providers and childbinders to use. And it's totally free. So again like Beth said with the child protection safeguarding policy, you don't need to recreate one. It's there for you to use. One of the other implications around online safety, that's quite an important one because back in the spring the government specifically collated some evidence around early years and screen time and the guidance for under fives has now been published and it's a really quite a fairly new document. So some people haven't actually come across it yet. So I I spoke about this in the early years DSL briefings, but I would really encourage all practitioners and even parents to save it, read it and actually for providers to have those really transparent conversations with parents around it because essentially for under twos, it says to avoid screen time completely. And then for ages two to five, it's no more than an hour a day. And actually less is better. So actually if parents are putting screens on for twenty minutes in the morning and twenty minutes in the afternoon, and then schools are putting, you know, number blocks on, for example, for a for half an hour that actually exceeds that recommended limit. So whilst that, you know, it and it would be different from setting to setting, but it's just really, really important for everyone to just consider that document and that guidance and have those kind of really transparent conversations and just communicate with your parents and say, actually, we don't have screens for under twos and we might introduce screens on a very irregular basis for the other ones. So yeah, it's just that's just an important thing to point out.

Steve Macabee (28:25.42)

With that, Harry, sorry, just to emphasize the point you just made there as well, because some settings might be going, Okay, it's recommended, you know, no no more than an hour. That's fine. They only watch it for half an hour in our setting. We're talking about cumulative screen time here. So I think a really important point that you're making there is yeah, a parent may already have half an hour screen time in the morning or plan for half an hour screen time after their child gets back. And that's that hour. So, you know, we we've you've got to be having those conversations to say, right, what screen time is your child having to gauge whether or not you can have any screen time or so how much.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(28:56.536)

And I appreciate that's probably going to open up quite a few different questions because lots of families, parent carers, they they have different approaches. Some don't have any screen time, whereas some probably use that hour and you know, and and as a setting you wouldn't want to be responsible for kind of exceeding that limit, which is, you know, whilst we say it's a recommendation, it would be exceeding that recommendation. So so yeah, I appreciate how that, you know, that might open lots of of questions up for for different situations, but but ultimately the guidance is there.

I encourage everybody to just go and have a look. It's really clear around between the different ages and things like choosing slow-paced and really age-appropriate content if screens are going to be used. Avoid those really fast-paced social media style videos like the AI tools for young children. If screens are used, watch them together, talk about what's happening, engage with your little ones. And ultimately the key message is under fives learn best through play, interaction, and screens should support, but not replace those experiences.

Steve Macabee (29:53.74)

Great stuff. And and I we we sort of mentioned KCSiE there as well, but obviously we've got the EYFS which very closely kind of links in with this. It cross references as well and obviously been updated as well. And I know there are some specific bits we need to think about as So we've talked about screen time. There's some a bit of a focus around safe sleeping as well, isn't there?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(30:09.358)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So back in the spring there were some intended changes being made to the framework in relation to safer sleeping arrangements in settings and for childminders. And the changes were following the really tragic death of a nine-month-old baby girl called Gigi in a nursery back in 2022, where sadly she died from stress and suffocation from being swaddled too tightly and being placed face down on a beanbag for 90 minutes and completely unmonitored. So the changes will make safer sleep expectations really, really explicit within the framework. And that implementation date is from September 26th. So this September, but all providers are already expected to comply with the requirements which have already been released. And they're really, really clear those core expectations and the changes and particularly some of the questions that I've had coming through to us already is around the checking of equipment. So providers need to check their equipment to ensure that they meet the relevant British standards. So there is a really clear list on the guidance as well around making sure that travel costs and cots and Moses baskets, carry cribs, mattresses, sleeping bags, everything is appropriate and meets the British standards.

Steve Macabee (31:19.372)

That's hopefully most places have already got all this in place, but if not, or if you're any doubt, go and go and check

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(31:26.082)

gone through all of the core expectations as you can imagine. But but like I said, you know, the the guidance is there. Save it, review everything. Lat and like I said, most settings I think already have because it was already released back in April, giving us a really clear heads up around what was changing. And there have been some real clear changes around babies under one and also children who fall asleep whilst traveling. So in the car or in a in a pram, for example, they need to be transferred when they return back to the setting to a safe flat and firm sleeping space. So that's another quite vital change as well.

Steve Macabee (31:58.722)

There's been a obviously a strong focus for many years around safe recruitment as well. And I think in in relation to the UIFS, we've got child minders and we have group settings as well. Can you give us some updates around what it's saying about safe recruitment?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(32:12.726)

Yeah, so I I think the the one around the removal of supervision exemption for a regulated activity that it's it's it's related to all settings completely. So obviously this is the most significant change is the removal of the supervision exemption through the Crime and Policing Act twenty twenty six. And this means certain volunteers who regularly teach, train, instruct or care or supervise children are now considered to be engaged in regulated activity even when supervised. So as a result, they will require the appropriate enhanced GBS and bargainist checks. We did release some information about this in one of our newsletters recently, but it's just, you know, another reminder for everybody listening to just make sure that you're reviewing all of the volunteers and visitors that come into your setting because it is really important that those relevant checks are undertaken.

Steve Macabee (32:59.692)

Yeah, and I think that's really important for everybody to be aware of. If you're from a voluntary sector organization, youth you know, youth organization. If you're somebody that that volunteers for more than three days within a 30-day period or an overnight, just one overnight, they must be enhanced DBS checked and checks against the barred list. And something I just wanted to really, really stress from this as well. Like we're saying about screen time, we're talking about accumulative more than three days. So it may well be they only come to your setting for one day a week, but if they are, for example,

spending one day a week within different settings, or they volunteer for a youth group on a Wednesday night, they come to you on a Tuesday, whatever. If it's more than three days in total that they are volunteering for with children in any way, or an overnight, they must be enhanced DBS checked and checked again at the bar list.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(33:43.798)

That's right. So I think we'll just say it, just go over it one more time. So previously, a volunteer working with children could be treated as outside regulated activity and so not require an enhanced DBS check if they were supervised by a staff member who was themselves in regulated activity. So the Crime and Policing Act 2026 removes that supervision exemption entirely. And from the first of September 2026, anyone teaching, training, instructing, or supervising children on more than three days in a 30-day period or overnight as a one-off is in regulated activity regardless of supervision and now requires an enhanced DBS check with a barred list check. So this is likely the highest practical burden of the update really for Somerset schools because you know we rely heavily on parenting community volunteers for sports clubs, reading support and similar regular activity. And so a good number of those new people will fall newly into that regulated activity. So each school and setting, of course, needs to audit its regular volunteers now, sort of well ahead of September, rather than waiting for the deadline, which is the first of September. So as Harry said, we have already preempted this and sent that message out to all schools via our bulletins so that settings can be on top of that for the first of September, and then also to look at their single central records to be updated and also their recruitment policies maybe needing to be updated to reflect that new scope. And obviously the DBS processing capacity, the turnaround times or local sign-off is worth checking because it can absorb some of the extra volume and time as well. It's not a click your fingers and it's done, it's an application. The barred list checks are a separate checks.

Potentially, it can be done with the DBS, of course, but that separate bard list check can be done. But if those individuals don't have an enhanced DBS, then that would need to happen anyhow. And that's where your business managers in schools can support with those things. But hopefully most settings are well aware of that with all the information that we've provided ahead of time. So yeah, that's one of the updates as well for the regulated activity. The removal of that supervision exemption is really critical that schools get that right and their single central record is updated and that they are completing the correct recruitment checks for all staff, volunteers, trainees, and that is part of it.

Steve Macabee (35:58.36)

And it'll need that conversation, like you say, with if somebody comes in to do reading for an hour a week, they only come into you and that's it. Even if they are just for a tiny, tiny short space of time, or once a month, for example, if they are also doing that in other settings, it's that cumulative. So you need to have that conversation with them to say, Look, you know, are you doing any other volunteering anywhere else? What's that look like?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(36:17.752)

Good process for your induction of your volunteers. Another really important process is to have an induction for your volunteers because then you know that that's not going to be forgotten. It's already there and someone's going to be reminded in case they might forget. And it will be reminded. And if it's in part of your induction and written there, then it's a really useful thing to have. So those processes might need updating too in line with this change. Yeah, so also we've got an update into in terms of written references. So within EYFS now. Safeguarding and welfare requirements have been updated to clarify that at least one written reference must be obtained before recruitment for staff, students, and volunteers. And obviously, we've just talked about the changes around the supervision exemption. So it's really important for all early year settings to make sure that they're reviewing those volunteers in their settings, determining whether that they meet the threshold for regulated activity threshold and ensuring that the appropriate DBS and barred list checks are undertaken. But in terms of written references for new staff, that would be for staff students and volunteers, and this aligns with the strengthened safer recruitment expectations reflected within KCSiE twenty twenty six.

Steve Macabee (37:24.526)

Obviously within earlier settings or within education settings, we have the role of the safeguarding lead as well. So what have what have we got in there that's that's focused around the role of the safeguarding lead?

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(37:33.388)

Yeah, so early years providers, the EYFS safeguarding reforms introduced in September twenty-five, so last September, they were actually more significant it within earlier than the KCSiE changes are this year. However, it's really important to talk about kind of staff awareness within earlier settings. And that was mainly around staff understanding what current safeguarding risks there are and the role of the DSL is really, really important. And staff need to understand who the DSL is, what their role is, and how to identify and report concerns and also identifying what these emerging risks could be and particularly associated with new kind of safeguarding risks around technology and AI and things that you know you talked about earlier with Beth within school settings. So it's really important for staff, particularly with inductions and also with their current staff within team meetings, is kind of having a topic of the month to talk about actually this is the role you might know who the DSL is, but this is the role of the DSL. And what we're gonna do today is stay in the life of the DSL. And if you were the DSL, what would you do? So whilst then might not be the DSL, but they would actually know what to do if the DSL wasn't there, you know, so that they could understand what those steps are, particularly around identifying concerns. what happens next. And I think that's really, really important for staff to have that awareness because I think it makes them far more alert to those emerging risks that could happen in earlier settings. It's the awareness, isn't it? And the next steps because you have a DSL, you also have your D DSLs. But it's interesting that, you know, it is all of our safeguarding is everybody's responsibility. And that's one thing that statutory updates are keen on expressing. It's not just down to a DSL, it's down to everyone. So that general awareness, while they may not have to manage the situation, is to have that awareness of their responsibility to identify and act upon something.

Steve Macabee (39:19.18)

Yeah, I've got to be honest. I think I see a couple of different ways that deputy DSLs particularly are presented. I think some settings very much see their deputy DSLs in this exactly the same way as a DSL, which they should do. I agree. Whereas other settings are this is the DSL and then there's sort of somebody secondary to that that role as a deputy. But you're absolutely right, you know, we need to be thinking, okay, suddenly that DSL is not available. They're not there, they're offset, whatever it is, the deputy or deputies have the same responsibilities there and they need to be able to step into that. It's not they're sort of in s in a secondary role.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(39:53.238)

Actually schools must inform their staff that the if the DSL is not there, it must be really explicit how they access support for a safeguarding matter. So would it be, okay, the DSL is not on site, but would is it school's expectation or settings expectation to contact the DSL on a mobile phone number? Is it the are they supposed to contact them via an email? Is there a DDSL on site that if everything is kind of being directed to in the absence of the DSL? So having those processes in place that are really clear that all staff know it's really important. And sometimes that's when your front office staff come in really handy because if nobody quite knows, generally everyone goes to the front office, okay. And so it's up it's important for those DSLs and DSLs in those pastoral teams where you're lucky enough to have more than one is updating the office staff to ensure, okay, DSL responsibilities today of this person, this person, so that it can really be clearly communicated to your staff so they can act upon any concerns they have immediately and seamlessly.

Steve Macabee (40:50.604)

And we we've gone through quite a lot today and a lot of things to for people to get heads around. I know there's a lot to be read as well. We're here, I say we're recording this right at the end of August. Obviously schools are going back very, very shortly. Sort of top tips really, recommendations of what leaders and school staff really need to be doing between now and the start of September.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(41:10.168)

So the takeaways for all education settings are to ensure that all staff read part one of KCSiE and make sure that this is recorded so you can clearly tell who has read this and consider any follow up actions, such as taking a staff quiz in relation to some of those changes, ensuring that you have an annual review of the filtering and monitoring processes in place or at least diarise to take place, and to ensure that with regards to any weapons staff are aware that they must report any concern about a child carrying or using a weapon or expressing intent to use a weapon straight to the DSL. And of course, in line with the regulated activity, the removal of the supervision exemption, just to ensure that all relevant staff have been considered to have any enhanced DBS check with the barred list in line with that change. And that's reflected on schools, single central records, and also to consider all policies being updated with these changes, such as behaviour policies. As I've mentioned, our child protection and safeguarding policy has been updated and to reflect those changes. Yes, so the key messages for earlier settings and reception classes within schools is ensuring that reception classes must still follow EYFS and keeping children safe in education. So KCSiE.

Children in reception remain within the EYFS age range, schools and receptions provisions must comply with both of those frameworks. Also, every adult has a safeguarding responsibility. Safer recruitment has to be strengthened. And as best also mentioned, around the significant change of removal of supervision exemptions for regulated activity. Written references are essential, so making sure that there is at least one written reference before appointing, and this does include students and volunteers where applicable.

Family help matters. Children and families should receive help as soon as difficulties emerge. Online safety begins with within early years. So settings should recognise that every child may be exposed to online risks through tablets, mobile devices, or using family technology at home. And good record keeping is really, really critical. So all concerns that are recorded must ensure that they include what happened, what actions are taken, decisions made, reasons for those decisions, and the outcomes achieved.

So I just thought it'd be really important to just point all of those out.

Steve Macabee (43:32.034)

Perfect. Thank both. And of course, with all of these changes, always come in. Make sure all of your policies are up to date, not just your safeguarding policies, but they're all there. Make sure you review all of them. Make sure they're all in line with all these updates and changes.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(43:43.47)

And that they're communicated with your staff members.

Steve Macabee (43:45.88)

Superb. Well, thank you so much both of you for coming in today and going through all of those changes. I know there's a lot of for people to get their heads around, but hopefully that gives a bit of an overview, a bit of a summary of those key highlighted points to be aware of. I say please, this doesn't take away actually reading the updates in in keeping children safe in education or KCSiE. And so two, please make sure you actually read through those changes and get your heads around them. But hopefully that gives you a bit of an overview there. Also, don't forget the Somerset Safeguard and Children Partnership also publish a basic awareness cascade pack for education settings and non-education settings to be updating their teams with all of these kind of key changes. We go through everything with a fine tooth comb and make sure we need to be covering what we need to cover within that to give your staffs all the most up-to-date information. So if you're not accessing that, that is free to access for anybody that's attended any of the advanced child protection courses through the SSCP. You just need to register membership for that if you don't already have.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(44:35.758)

Well on that note, in line with statutory guidance, the SSCP is a bit of a one-stop shop here, isn't it? Because if you're not using SSCP, then it's important to understand how your staff know the local processes and policies with regard to safeguarding, because all of that is covered on the SSCP update and the Cascade PAC and not necessarily form part of any other training. So it's useful for schools. Most schools use Cascade Pack update, which is fab, but for those schools that don't we need to understand how their staff are understanding the local processes around Somerset safeguarding.

So it's just important to just think about that at this time of you too.

Steve Macabee (45:07.766)

Absolutely. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much, both of you. And I know we've got a DSL briefing coming up shortly in September as well, I think. So yeah, we'll be bringing you lots of updates within that as well.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(45:16.834)

Do and you never listen to all these podcasts, so it's really bizarre to be on them. Yeah. They're great though when you're driving along around Somerset. You know, I bang on about them all the time. They're really useful, they're really helpful. Especially when we're driving around so much, as you say, we just record them and pop them on. So now we're feeling like we're part of the podcast team. It's been really fun. Very good. Very much

Steve Macabee (45:34.872)

Steve. No, thank you. And this is the first one we're going to bring out again in September. And for anybody listening to this, we have got a whole load more that we've been recording in the background and and furiously editing over the summer. And so this is just the start of the the new series that's coming out. So there'll be plenty more coming out for you very shortly. So thank very much both of you. Good to see you again. And I hope you've managed to get in a bit of a break in over the summer to some extent. I know both of you have been working and there's been lots going on, but hopefully you've been able to get out and have a bit of a break and enjoy a bit of sunshine. Yeah.

Beth Ollive & Hari Fuller(46:03.342)

Yeah, absolutely. Nice to speak to you, Steve. See you soon. Thanks so much, Steve.

Steve Macabee (46:06.722)

Thank you both. Take care. Bye-bye. 

As always, if you would like to find out more details on the topic discussed in today's episode, please go to the SSCP website at Somerset Safeguardingchildren.org.uk or the Support Services for Education website, which is Support Services for Education dot co.uk forward slash education safeguarding, or by following any of the links in this episode description.

Now, if you enjoy listening to the Peapod, we would really appreciate it if you did take that time to follow or subscribe to us on your chosen platform, or even better, leave a review and let other people know about it. And make sure to let your colleagues know about this podcast and encourage them to come and join us here as well. It really does help to spread the word. Now, if you have any questions or comments arising from today's episode, or would like to be involved in future episodes, we would love you to get in touch with us at theppod@somerset.gov.uk. Once again,

I'd like to give you a huge thank you to my guests today, Beth Ollive and Hari Fuller from Somerset Council's Education Safeguarding Service. And as always, I'd like to thank you for listening. My name is Steve Macabee, and I'm the training manager for the Somerset Safeguarding Children Partnership. And I look forward to you joining us again next time at the P-Pod.

speaker-0 (47:14.476)

Let's work together to help keep children safe.