An Overview of the National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel Annual Report 2023-24

Thank you for listening to the PPod from the Somerset Safeguarding Children Partnership. Due to the nature of this podcast, themes relating to the abuse and neglect of children are discussed. Therefore, listener discretion is advised and the content unsuitable for children.

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Steve Macabee

Welcome back to the P-Pod, the partnership podcast from the Somerset Safeguarding Children Partnership. Now, if you've been listening to any of our recent podcast episodes or attended any of our briefings or training recently, you'll know we've been talking a lot about the work of the National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel and where they've been undertaking and particularly more recently on the panel's national reports into sexual abuse in the family environment, which we talked about in our last, well, in our recent interview with Dr. Anna Riddell. As well as the National Panel's annual report which was published back in December 2024. So we thought what better way to give you a really good insight and understanding into the annual report in particular than to speak to a member of the national panel itself So I'm really, really pleased today to be joined back in the studio by a friend of the Peapod, uh, Sally Shearer OBE. So Sally, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today because I know you guys are really busy at the moment at the, uh, the panel, but how are you? 

Sally Shearer – National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel

I'm fine, thanks, Steve. And thank you for inviting me. I think these podcasts are amazing. I'm really interested that you've connected with Anna because I used to work with Anna in Bart's Health. So yeah, I'll look out for that one. 

Steve Macabee

So yeah, so before we get into this, I know, um, we've spoken before on a previous podcast about one of our early PPod episodes where you gave a really good overview of the work of the national panel. If anybody has not heard that one, would you be able to start off just giving a sort of very brief overview about what the national panel is if nobody's heard of it before? 

Sally Shearer – National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel

Yeah, sure. Thanks, Steve. So the National Panel was set up in 2018 as a result of the legislation in 2017. We are a panel of ten people from different professions, very similar to how you would have in a safeguarding partnership. And we have oversight of all of the serious harm and deaths that have occurred as a result of abuse or neglect. So I think it's important to emphasise we don't see every safeguarding case in the country, but just those that meet the criteria of really serious harm. And what we do with that information flows into us from the serious incident notifications, rapid reviews, and then local child safeguarding practice reviews. And then we use all of that data to pull out some key themes, emerging themes, and then share that across England to help safeguarding partnerships with their practice. And uh, and just have that oversight really on child protection in England. The other thing that we do is we do produce national reviews. So where Incidents have been of such complexity or significance or of national interest, then we will publish those. They're all on our website and we've got... I don't know, probably seven or eight now. And then the other thing that we do is issue practice briefings. So these are shorter documents, probably twenty to thirty pages long on A current practice theme that we want to get out and practitioners quite quickly. And then we have newsletters and webinars as well. So lots for partnerships and practitioners to engage with. 

Steve Macabee

I think the work of the National Panel is so invaluable. And like you said, quite often on a local basis, we can obviously look at local learning and pick out those themes. Having that overview from the national panel about actually what's happening around the country, are we seeing similar themes, which I know we are and sort of know that you pick out in the reports, but also what are the differences between the areas and importantly, actually what some of the evidence of good practice are, what works, what can be really effective and how we can embed this into local practice is really key. So obviously today we’re focused on the findings and recommendations particularly from the national panels annual report. So it was just recently published. Um, and that's, um, that's a really kind of key summary of all from the, those reviews that you see coming into you from across the country. I'm really drawing those key bits of good practice and that kind of learning and the themes that you see coming up. But I know, like you say, that The National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel, you've been very busy over the last twelve months and been lots going on. I'm just wondering, before we get into the annual report, will you be able to give a bit of an overview about some of the wide work that has been taking place, the wider reports that you've been publishing?

Sally Shearer – National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel

Yes, sure. Um, so the annual report is obviously what we're here to discuss. We had 330 notifications last year. We have more than one child on a notification, so I think that covered about 459 children. So that's our business as usual, really. The beat of the panel. But then we have been incredibly busy. So some things to look out for that are coming out very shortly. Janine Davis has led a review into race, so the implications of race and culture on children's experiences and then how practitioners respond to those. So that's really imminent. And then coming hot on the heels of that, we will be publishing our latest version of the panel guidance. And then the partnership have been involved in the expert reference group on that, which is great. And then some other work that we're doing is looking how we can better support safeguarding partnerships with their LCSPRs and rapid reviews. So we've got a learning support platform. A program that's just reporting on its initial findings and then we need to think about what we take forward as a consequence of that. And some of the publications that we've had sort of in the last Nine months or so. We did do a practice briefing on elective home education last May. And that's obviously very typical with the children's wellbeing and schools bill at the moment. And what we did find, you know, the report isn't to comment on the merits of elective home education. It's absolutely the right thing for many children. And we know that for the vast majority of children, home is a safe place. But there were forty-one children last year who were electively home educated and did experience severe abuse, harm. Um, I think six of those children actually died. So this is something that we're very concerned about and we're very welcoming of the proposal within the bill that there should be a register of children who are not in school. That's in a nutshell what that briefing was about. We then obviously published our child sexual abuse within the family environment review and that was in November. And it's called I Wanted Them All to Notice, which, you know, summarises the emotion of many children who don't feel able to divulge that they're being abused and they're just desperately hoping that someone will pick up on those signals. That looks at notifications that we received between 2018 and 2023 related to that abuse within the family environment. There were 130 notifications that we had. And a third of those children were actually abused by people who were known to be, to pose a threat to children. Ten of those children became pregnant. Six of them were delivered of their babies. And a really shocking statistic, the youngest child, Child to have a baby as a consequence of that abuse. She was only eleven years old. So that's really shocking. And we know that it has a massive impact on children. So seven of those children went on to complete suicide and significant evidence of Self-harm, eating disorders, depression, substance misuse and a real impact on the learning because they can't focus on their learning and also very often they're missing school. So, um, there's some real salutary learning for partnerships within that review. We've suggested that partnerships form their own action plan, but then thinking about a key message from that review is how poorly equipped practitioners feel. To be able to talk to children what they're allowed to say because of the criminal process that might be running in parallel. And there's a consequence of that because people don't really know what to say. They don't say anything. So making sure that those children get the support and are heard and their feelings are acknowledged. And there's also a message in there around the Sexual Assault Referral Centre, referral pathways for children. Not only referring them for their examinations, but also referring for the level of support that they can give afterwards. 

Steve Macabee

I thought it was an excellent report, that one in particular, because, um, for me, a lot of it was drawing out something that was really... Practical, and sometimes what seems obvious points, but actually I think sometimes it's useful to hold that mirror up and say, look, this is what we're seeing, and um, for me, when I was talking through it with Anna, there's really few Particularly pertinent bits, like you say, quite often there is an awareness from practitioners, quite often there is an uncertainty, but that, that lack of confidence sometimes about actually having that conversation, say that feeling of, I'm opening up a can of worms here, I'm not quick to deal with that. And, but also that fear of I've got to make sure I say the right thing and I've got to do this and the other, and that just creating barriers to actually having that conversation, whereas one of the most important Is just to be there and to listen and to be able to capture that, that voice. Cause like you say, that's, that's something that comes up time and time again from children, young people is that I, I tried to tell people I wanted people to know. But it just never happened. People didn't ask me that question. And, um, I think for me, the other, another really key point of that report was around the understanding around thresholds. Which we talk about a lot in terms of safeguarding but in particular the difference between legal thresholds and beyond reasonable doubt as opposed to safeguarding thresholds and that feeling of There's no further legal action we can take. And so therefore everybody thinking, well, there's, there's nothing we can do. We just need to step back now, which absolutely is not the case. So, so yeah. So for me, those were a couple of really personal points. We do sort of stress a lot at the moment in the briefings and in the, The training we're doing that actually we've just got to be really aware of this. And when I do talk about it, I can see people in the room suddenly going, actually, yeah, no, I can, I've got that. I can see that. Yeah. I thought it was a really useful report that one moving forward. So, and obviously, as we said, we're here to talk today about the, um, the, the recent annual report that's just been published, which I thought was a really interesting one actually. And, and this year sort of taken a slightly different tact. I felt because, um, the previous year, there's a lot of data in there, a lot of information, and it was quite broad in terms of this is kind of what's come into us. This is what we've seen. Whereas this year it was quite focused on themes, wasn't it? And sort of picking out a few key themes, which I thought was really interesting. Just out of interest, what was the decision around that? So to say, actually, let's really hone down on these themes. Was this something that you were really seeing emphasized? So you thought, actually, we've got to focus in on these. 

Sally Shearer – National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel

I think our annual reports have evolved over the years so as you say initially they were essentially reflecting the data that we received but for the last two annual reports we have worked with BKPP Who have helped us much more with that analysis because that's the whole point of it, isn't it? That the learning is harvested from all of that data and slated into a format that practitioners can then actually use. So that was the reason that there has been that change and we had had the same six key themes for a couple of years. We were thinking around what is it that we are seeing most of and what would be of greatest benefit, what are practitioners particularly struggling with that it would be really useful for them for us to focus on? And that's why we made those selections. Mental health is a really strong feature every fortnight when we meet. We'd had a focus for several years on the vulnerability of infants and that's because, you know, they still make up 36% of the referrals that we receive so it's important that we have that focus on infants but We then noticed in a literature review that actually the evidence around preschool children is very, very scarce. There's not a lot written about them and yet they're not always under the sights of schools or nurseries. And when you first have an infant, there's quite a lot of health input, but then that drops off after the first year. So we were really keen to focus on that as an age group, which is why we picked preschool children with parents with mental health needs. And then with that extra familial harm, it is such a dynamic and evolving issue and very high profile in the media, obviously, at the moment. So that was something that we really felt that we needed to turn our attention to. 

Steve Macabee

And if it's okay, it'd be great to go through each of those findings if we can and sort of go through those practice points. I think that's where, for me, this annual report really worked is it's really honing down and it's Kind of getting into more detail because like you said, we know for sadly for, for a number of years now, there's been that big spike in harm to very young babies sometimes. But I think for me, it's then diving down more into it to say, okay, well, what, what is it that we're looking at here? And I always make the, you know, stress the point that when we're looking at very, very young babies, we've got the highest level of vulnerability of any age and the lowest level of routine service involvement typically. But I think that important point is, okay, there may be, you know, involvement from early on midwifery services and then health visiting services. But then we've got more of a gap there in terms of service involvement between those sort of one to, well, that preschool age, weren't we? You're highlighting in particular the important role that early year settings can play in safeguarding, which I think I might be talking, talking out of turn here, but I think is often overlooked in terms of the really important role that the early years can play around safeguarding children. 

Sally Shearer – National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel

Yeah, absolutely. And we see sometimes when agencies are coming together in a strategy meeting or they're gathering information for an assessment, they don't always include the nursery. It's not always. And similarly, the nurseries are seeing those parents and who's dropping the child off and what's happening around that handover time. They're seeing that every day and if they're not aware that there are any issues within that family, then they probably don't pay too much attention to some little things that they notice but don't think anything of because they don't know about the background. Uh, so it's really important that nurseries are included in that way. They play a key role in those preschool years. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, so if it's okay, do you mind if we kind of hone down on the three themes then? So as you mentioned, with three themes highlighted there, one was about children, young people's mental health needs. Then sort of picking up from that, also the second theme was around parental mental health needs. Um, and then finally, as you mentioned, uh, the third one being those, those risks outside of the home. So if we kind of go through each of those, and I'm just thinking if we can start off with around children's mental health needs, which is the first key point that was highlighted in the report. And obviously it's an area that has been highlighted a lot. It was highlighted in, in the changes to the definition around safeguarding and working together going back 2020, um, now, um, having that responsibility to support and promote the welfare of children and young people's mental health amongst other things. And I know as a panel, as I say, you obviously see when things go wrong and that, that sort of practice that can be improved, but also I, I know you see a lot of good practice, which you've highlighted in the report as well. I'm just thinking it's often an area that the practitioners can really struggle with, particularly as it highlights in the report, is that obviously there are those acute services, mental health services for young people, the CAMHs services, but also that need for those early help Mental health services as well. So what are some of the sort of strategies that you've seen, particularly for identifying and supporting children with mental health difficulties? 

Steve Macabee

So, just in terms of those children with mental health needs then, if I'd just set the scene with some data. So, around a fifth of the children who were referred to the panel with mental health needs Had one or more mental health conditions. So one in five of all of our notifications related to a child with one or more mental health conditions. And the vast majority of those were between the ages of eleven and fifteen And I think it's important to remember that the children that we see, they haven't just got mental health needs, there are obviously other things going on. So half of them had been physically abused, half of them had been sexually abused. A third of them had also been exposed to neglect and a half of them were addicted to either alcohol or other substances. So, um, there's a lot going on for these children. There's obviously neurodiversity in there, there's cultural issue, disability issues. And many of them are missing school because of their mental health because they just don't want to go to school. So there can be some real challenges around getting a rounded assessment of these children. So I think the strategies that practitioners need to employ, there was quite a lot within the annual report in that section and we've also laid out some questions for both practitioners and strategic leaders to help to signpost people. But if I was to pick out some of the key learning around mental health, the first thing would be about keeping children absolutely at the centre of what you're doing. And what we have seen is that children do really well where they find a trusted adult within the services that are helping them that they can really open up to and express how they're feeling, what they want to happen. What makes them happy? What makes them sad? And at a time and a pace that works for them. So that is really important that that is made available to them. But then I think what is then really, really important is that that information that they've shared, which might have taken quite a long time to gather, And it's very precious that we don't lose or waste that. So that where practitioners are receiving that information, it's well documented, it's well shared across agencies. And that all of the practitioners understand that the presenting behaviours of those children and what the difference is between an escalation in their distress and what is their usual state. Particularly where there are neurodiversity issues. Very often practitioners may think that the presenting behaviour is due to their condition whereas it may be due to an escalation in how they're feeling. So I think it's really important to get that multi-professional assessment. Where possible involving families in that obviously that's a standard principle isn't it around collaborating with families but also by having those close relationships with families. You can understand how well they are coping with what is happening with that child and the impact that that's having on the family because we very often see an over-optimism in how families are coping. Until you get to crisis point and then that placement or that family home breaks down. I think it's important within a local area that services understand referral pathways. And thresholds for various services. And that isn't well understood amongst practitioners. And as a consequence of that, it's not well understood by families because if the practitioners don't understand it, they can't. Explain it to families. And I think also workforce is a really important consideration within children who are exhibiting mental health difficulties, because as we all know, Children have practitioners that they like to work with, this trusted individual that I've talked about. Families also have their own preferences. But when members of that workforce move on, that can be another additional loss for that child and family. So just thinking about the management of handover. And when people move on, it also causes capacity constraints, doesn't it? Everybody gets squeezed. Everybody has to take on a slightly larger caseload. So I think it's an important strategy is thinking about the workforce that you have got. To deliver care to these children and how you minimize any potential impact on children and families by those changes. Well, actually one of the things that really I think goes throughout the whole of the annual report from this year is that need to think holistically. And not see things in isolation. And, you know, you talk there about often we may see behaviours and sometimes those behaviours are attributed to A disability or neurodiversity need without thinking wider. I know, again, that came up in the report around sexual abuse in the family environment of often focusing on behaviours and managing behaviours rather than understanding them, but also understanding about all of those factors. Many of these children, young people had experienced other forms of abuse. There was a lot going on for them. And it's that trying to understand all of those dynamics impacting on each other and not looking in isolation. And I think leading on from that, that comes out, that's a point that comes out really strongly, 

Steve Macabee

I think, in the second theme around parental mental health. And obviously we talked a moment ago about really focusing there around preschool children. But also I think the annual report picks out around often mental health needs for parents are recognized but not always considered as a risk factor necessarily and not thinking about like say those different aspects And, you know, often we look at one aspect around if there's domestic abuse taking place or if there's neglect, but not getting that rounded picture about how each of those kind of really impact each other. I know with that, just from what you've seen, how do you feel that professionals can kind of best kind of assess and respond to the mental health needs of parents, especially with preschool children, as we've been talking about and sort of focusing on. On their child when often again for parents with mental health difficulties, there's a lot going on for them as well. And what, what sort of things did you sort of find? 

Sally Shearer – National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel

Yeah, I mean, I think what you've just said, Steve, really demonstrates the complexity within families and the really finely balanced decisions that practitioners are having to make each day. And you can't compartmentalize issues because there are all of these overlaying factors. I think As you say, of these children, there were twenty-seven children that we looked at who had been referred to the panel who were preschool and who had parents with mental health needs. And fifteen of those children died and twelve were seriously harmed. And that was largely the harm was caused by a parent or a carer. And... There are these additional complexities. It's not just that they've got a parent who's got mental health needs. And it's all interrelated. Uh, but two thirds of these children had also, were also suffering from neglect. Um, half of them were physically abused. There's often disability in these families, either the child or the parent or both parents. And for some of the parents that we saw, they were really young, sixteen seventeen often care leavers. And all but one of those twenty-seven children were already known to children's social care. So in terms of how professionals can use all of that information and better assess the needs, very often we see that assessments focus on whatever the presenting issue has been. For the reason for the referral. So they may have been referred in for neglect and they'll go in and look at the home conditions and put in some interventions to approve those or the referral might have come in for domestic abuse and referrals are made. Without, as you say, really understanding, yes, there is neglect, yes, um, there is domestic abuse, but actually what, what role is mental health playing in this? And what do we know about the fluctuations in mental health and the impact that that has on children? So I think it can be really important. We've seen some real success where practitioners who are working with these families Have got rapid access to specialist mental health teams that when things are deteriorating because of the mental health, as well as addressing all of the more tangible aspects, they know that they can tap into that help and get some early resolutions. The other things that we've seen, obviously we're talking about preschool children, but many of these families have had a pre-birth assessment either for the child That we are talking about or for other children in the family. And that can be really useful data that practitioners can go back and look at to understand triggers within that family and things, interventions that have worked well in the past. For six of the children, we realised that there were men living within that home that agencies didn't know about. So, you know, that is still an issue that was reflected in last year's annual report about the understanding of Who is living in a household and maybe that's something that will come with the information sharing work that's in the children's well-being. They'll Around how we pull together all of that information, what different agencies know, and make sure that everybody knows that. In terms of response, we've seen some really good work by health visitors and GPs, particularly where families either haven't been turning up for appointments for their own mental health or they haven't been turning up for appointments for their children's health. And we know that families don't always engage and sometimes services get closed down as a consequence because the families haven't accessed early health. So I think it's really important for practitioners to, if People aren't engaging rather than just closing them down to the service. Think about why they're not engaging and whether a different intervention might help. And we've seen an over, we often see over-optimism in cases. So yes, this parent's got mental health needs, but she seems to be doing okay. Or taking self-reporting by parents at face value. Particularly around their compliance with treatment regimes. And an absolute biggie is agencies not talking to each other. So we see that between statutory and non-statutory agencies. But also the importance of the service in adults that is treating the parent for their mental health needs. And then the children's service is looking at how to promote the child's wellbeing and keep them well protected and cared for. And where they don't talk to each other because very often we see cases where adult services haven't really appreciated that there are Family members in that home, children in that home, and think about how their mental health needs are going to impact on their ability to parent. And equally, where you've got concerns around children, it's important that children's services think about what adult services May be involved and get their perspective as well. 

Steve Macabee

No, that, that, I think for me, that really came across, like I say, particularly that, that need to better join up between adult services and children's services and the volunteering community sector as well. I think quite often what we see, and I'm sure you see, are Some pockets of really good information sharing amongst some groups, but, but now again, it's about expanding that out wider to say, right, well, actually You know, the, the voluntary community sector is so important, you know, for so many families, so many communities, the adult health services, so important to link in with as well. And again, is that looking wider, isn't it? It's not just looking at this is the state of the home condition. It's thinking wider around mental health needs and how they may impact on each other, but also thinking wider, thinking more holistically about. Who's in the home? What is the, what is the world of the child? What does that look like? And then wider actually thinking holistically about agencies and actually that wider joining up of services. Obviously adult services focusing on the needs of adults, but still needing to work together to keep that focus on children the whole time throughout this. So I thought, yeah, that was a really key kind of part for me that jumped out. Moving on then, I think sort of looking at our third theme that came out in the annual report was around those risks from outside of the home, um, the extra-familiar harm. And like you say, this is an area that sadly... We've seen sort of growing exponentially over, over quite a number of years now. And, and rightly so, I think now being highlighted more and more right away across the country and, and recognizing those, those risks to children, young people outside of the home environment, which I always stress, actually, it is, it's a relatively, relatively kind of new way of thinking. I know it's, well, Really sort of coming out from Rotherham inquiry, Rochdale inquiries, for the first time thinking wider than just within the home environment and whether the parents are or aren't being protective. But I always stress that's not that long ago in the grand scheme of things around safeguarding, only sort of twelve years ago now. And things have moved on a lot since then in terms of understanding. Like you mentioned at the start here, it's also an area that is constantly evolving, isn't it? And we've got to sort of keep on top of, which is very challenging for us. So. I just think, what are some of the sort of main challenges that you've seen in identifying and addressing that extra-familiar harm, like child exploitation and serious youth violence, gang-related violence, which you say, sadly, has been in the media quite a lot recently. What are you kind of seeing? And I know you kind of highlight again, you mentioned that neurodiversity a moment ago, and I know that played a theme around this as well. 

Sally Shearer – National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel

Yeah, I mean, as you say, it's a, it's a really dynamic and evolving picture around this harm that occurs outside the home and pulls in many different strands, as you've mentioned, around criminal exploitation, sexual exploitation. Peer on peer violence. Um, we see an awful lot of that online harm. And, uh, I think both ourselves and partnerships and individual practitioners understanding more around that emerging online world. So I think in terms of the panel, one of our concerns are the racial and cultural issues that relate around all of that. So we know that black children form the largest ethnic group. Who are harmed by serious youth violence and gang-related crime. Not just our data, but there's a Data from other reports such as the Youth Endowment Fund who have demonstrated that black children are over-represented. In youth justice. And then conversely, within child sexual exploitation, the vast majority of notifications that come to us relate to white children. So, um, there's sort of understanding of all of that backdrop to it as well, I think. The main challenges, I suppose, are identifying extra familial harm. And that can be particularly difficult where children have got mental health needs or neurodiversity. Say, for example, if they go missing, is that related to their mental health condition or is there something more sinister going on? For many girls, they don't understand that they're being sexually exploited. They just think they've got a very attentive boyfriend. They don't understand. Around coercion. So I think the first challenge is in identifying that and it's difficult to put in only help where it hasn't even been recognised. And you mentioned also around the crossover between extrafamilial and intrafamilial harm and I think it's important to remember that, that many of these children who are at risk of extra familial harm exploitation They're vulnerable because they may not be having their needs met within their family. There may be neglect or physical abuse going on within their own family. And so this new group that they are associating with is fulfilling a need within them. That they don't have. And so there is that very strong interrelationship that we see between extra familial harm and harm within the home. I think in terms of neurodiversity, obviously there are issues there around Waiting times for assessment and the help that children and families can receive in that time while they're waiting. And what we do see within reviews is some confusion around whether this child has got an autism diagnosis or whether it's just Suspected and they are awaiting that assessment and you can see in different agencies reporting different statuses for the same child. And also confusion over the presenting behaviours and whether that's as a result of a condition or as a result of trauma. And I think I mentioned earlier about there's no real common understanding sometimes within teams of referral pathways and what services are available and how you access them. So I think it's really important that practitioners receive really good training and are kept up to date on identifying where extra familial harm Um, maybe occurring and that's really important in schools where they will pick up around attendance and those more subtle signs within children, behavioural changes, suddenly having a lot more money than they did have. So that's really important that that gets picked up and also that partners then work together across the patch to map out. Um, what is happening and when many years ago when I worked in London we used to have children moving across London boroughs into neighbouring boroughs but what I think we are increasingly seeing is You know, a child from Brighton who ends up over in your neck of the woods, you know, towards Bristol. So children can travel quite long distances and just being really aware of what is happening there and mapping that out with neighbouring agencies as well. I think the idea of issues around safeguarding being in a, in a small location are, are long gone. And, and again, 

Steve Macabee

I think that's an area nationally where we're still, quite struggling with because what we see from the evidence is often one of the strategies to try and keep children, young people safe who may be in the care system, for example, sometimes it's moving to a completely different part of the country because thinking, you know, they're here and this is all going on for them. But, you know, in the world of mobile phones and internet use, the idea of pockets of abuse taking place are just not there. And it's not... It's not a criticism, but it's not a, it's not an effective strategy because children and young people will be exploited anywhere. And like you say, with the report highlighting as well around online risk for children and young people as well now, which, which does not have borders. And it is an area I think we've nationally, we've really got to think carefully about how it's tackled on a national basis in there. And I know there is a lot of good work going on. I'm not saying there isn't, but, um, but it is a, it is a tricky area that we've really got to kind of think differently about, I think, isn't it? I'm just thinking with that, you talked about the importance of multi-agency collaboration and obviously the report throughout the whole annual report and previous reports really emphasizes the need for that really strong multi-agency collaboration. Again, just think about some of the good examples that you see. Are you just going to share any good examples of really effective multi-energy working and the impact that's had on safeguarding children? 

Sally Shearer – National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel

Yeah, sure. I mean, I think strong leadership is really key here, uh, where you have, um, leaders who have got really good relationships, uh, with their peers in other agencies. And they can role model that approach where you work together. And so that you're clear on purpose, you're willing to share the risk. But also, whilst you're clearing your own professional responsibilities for your agency, you also clear that we're all in this together and We've talked about the complexity of presentations and therefore it's important that people can be flexible around what they can offer. I think where we have seen this work really well, it is often in mental health services actually. Um, so where a child is particularly struggling, um, with their mental health needs and there's a lot of agencies involved, the school, The placement that they may be living in, the CAMHS unit or the CAMHS outreach team, children's social care, there may be physical health issues as well. Where they have a regular beat of meetings and they prioritised those meetings to come around that child so that everybody around the table had got a clear picture from their perspective about what was happening but they also understood everybody else's. Perception of that child at that time and the placement went away with a real clear view of what the safety plan was and what the triggers could be. And also making sure that you have got all of the right agencies around there. So it's not just about the attendance of everybody's on the list, but are we missing anybody off the list? And may need to think about involving youth justice or probation or, as we've mentioned earlier, adult mental health services as well. But I think that is really important. And then actions can get progressed in a timely manner and everybody knows where they are. It just feels a really complete approach to case management. It can be time consuming and it may well not be practical. But emulating that model is really helpful. 

Steve Macabee

And then again, it's looking wider than the usual suspects, isn't it? Actually, it I know for a number of years we've been highlighting around the important role that the GPs play, for example. You talked about adult mental health services there as well. We talked earlier about early years setting voluntary community sector. So it's really kind of expanding out that net to say, actually, yeah. Wider, we've really got to work together and obviously working together to safeguard children always, always for many years emphasize we all have a responsibility to safeguard children. But actually let's put that into practice. Let's really make that work as in a, in a very broad sense where if we all have responsibility, let's all actually work together on this and come together, which, I know it sounds great in theory and that sometimes it's challenging in practice, but I think it's important to highlight actually we've got to keep working on that. We've got to keep striving towards that. On, on that one, I, and obviously there's, there's been a strong focus for a number of years, rightly so, on the role that education plays and obviously, uh, an increasing look from the government for education to be included as a fourth statutory safeguarding partner, which I think is very welcome. Although, obviously, as we've been saying, it comes with its challenges. And obviously the report highlights the importance of education settings around safeguarding children. From what you see as a panel, how do you feel that sort of schools and early settings we've been talking about can better support children at risk from what you've seen from the reviews and things? 

Sally Shearer – National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel

I think the report this year has really flagged to us the importance of education at the schools, colleges, early years. Um, and the role that they play both in the oversight as we've already mentioned and having that trusted individual to open up to. Sometimes we see reviews where the school has put in a referral about a child. They may be worried about their presentation, their behaviour might be deteriorating, they're looking more dishevelled than usual. And nothing appears to happen, so it may go into the mash, it might be assigned to early help, it might not meet the threshold, there may be no further action. And I think, um, like all referrers where you have that response every time you put in a referral, it can make you feel a bit disheartened and feel there isn't any point in putting in a referral. So I think it's important for schools never to give up and we see some really great examples of schools who have made referrals and they see how things go. Things aren't getting any better so they re-refer and they never give up on that child, they continue to bang that drum and put those referrals in. Where things aren't being progressed and they've got real concerns, then taking that through the partnerships escalation process. So I think that is a really important message and we've seen some really great reviews where actually the outcome has been because of the tireless work on behalf of schools. I think the other thing that we've seen around schools is how they support children on a really practical way. We read reports where schools are letting children shower when they get to school, washing their clothes. Obviously, um, feeding children, but taking it as far as making sure that families have collected prescriptions, uh, if the child has got a long-term health need. Or even driving families to health appointments, reminding families of health appointments. So they do a massive amount to compensate for what children aren't receiving as their experience of parenting. But I think it's really important that where that is happening, it can sometimes mask what the issue is. Not losing sight of the issue and still making the referrals. And the other thing is we've seen some really tragic consequences in the past where during that long Summer holiday, um, children have died because that level, particularly around medical neglects, asthma and diabetes, where they're not, they've got nobody every morning making sure that they've had their medication. Six weeks is a long time and can have some tragic consequences. So where you are putting in that input, still making sure that agencies are aware that there are still very life problems and making sure that there's a backup plan. Uh, for when school isn't there for them. 

Steve Macabee

Yeah, there's, there's always, well, for a number of years now, there's been a growing emphasis around the important role that, that the education settings play. And, and I, I think. Often schools feel very under pressure, you know, in terms of the roles they need to play with, you know, with the academic attainment side of things, with their Ofsted inspections, with the updates and keeping children safe and that kind of added responsibilities that sort of are often added on. But like you say, the I think it's just recognizing that the really, really important role and really key role and quite unique role often that the education settings can play, you know, sometimes knowing those children for on a daily basis for years, sometimes, and sometimes even Going back, knowing the parents as they were children sometimes, and so can have a really unique insight. And I say knowing, okay, well, this child was presenting in this way yesterday or last week, and now something's changed, which... Often people wouldn't be in a position to pick up on. So just recognizing that very important role and unique role that education can play and how we support education setting best to be able to support children. But it's challenging, isn't it? It is always challenging. 

Sally Shearer – National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel

Yeah, it is. I think the other value in schools is they can very often engage families when other agencies have failed because, as you say, of that long-standing relationship that they've had. 

Steve Macabee

So I know the annual report made a number of recommendations for practitioners as well as sort of looking at the findings from that. Would you be able to summarize some of those kind of key recommendations on a, I know you looked strategically and operationally within the report, which I thought was really helpful and asked some sort of key questions as part of that for on a strategic and operational basis. So would you be able to provide a bit of a summary? 

Sally Shearer – National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel

Um, we haven't particularly made recommendations. We, we have arranged it around practice questions because the feedback to us was that was most helpful to partnerships. So there are a lot of questions and prompts for both a practitioner level and a strategic level. Within that, but I think if I was to offer some priorities for practitioners at a direct care level, it would be around doing your basics well. Working with other agencies, involving them, thinking about what information they may have, what information, you might need to be quite direct about the information that you ask for. And then making those assessments together as we've always already mentioned. Um, I think the importance of listening to children and getting that voice of the child One of the things that we have really seen within our reviews is very often they don't reflect the voice of the child. And sometimes the author of the report will say that is because there was nothing in the agency records about the voice of the child. So it is then difficult when you come to an LCSPR to write that section. So really important to document that section. Uh, because it is only by considering, um, the voice of the child that you can actually put yourself in their shoes and understand what their life is like and we all get very saddery because we see so much of this. It can be really useful to stand back from what you're seeing and hearing and thinking, well, you know, what must it have been like to have been that child? And then, of course, making sure that that's documented. In terms of strategic, that's quite difficult to define because although when we run our national webinars, we know from those that people are essentially struggling with the same things, but the extent to which Those challenges will be evident, will vary enormously according to the context. So I would suggest because there's just so much coming out at the moment, both from ourselves, from other organizations, and obviously with the change of government and their focus within their policy paper and the bill. I think strategically it's important for partnerships to audit themselves. Have an audit program or an audit tool where they can think about all of these recommendations and where they are and against those and seek that assurance. And there is so much coming out at the moment that I think you could very easily get swamped and overwhelmed by all of that. So after taking into consideration all of the learning that is available. Then laying over that as a partnership, your own data, because you know that each partnership knows what their particular issues, the things that they haven't quite got right, they haven't quite got covered off. And you'll have that from your own metrics as well as the reviews. So it's going to be really important that you prioritize what is the greatest risk and what actions need to be done that will cover off as many of those issues as possible and then I think the final thing to say is, as I mentioned earlier, the workforce are under incredible pressure. It is a really complex situation that safeguarding is in at the moment. There is so much happening, so much evolving. So much coming out in terms of policy and direction from the government that it's really important to focus on the workforce. So the two key cornerstones that I think around Running a partnership or having that strong leadership that understands, um, the multi-agency needs of their, um, locality and what their challenges are and what needs to happen. And then a really effective and compassionate workforce that can deliver that. And I think paying attention to that workforce. And making sure that they're equipped with the skills that they need to do their job because the skills that they needed three years ago probably won't be the skills that they need now. And then also enabling them to have time for reflection and also some restorative supervision because we see some examples of exemplary practice and people are making It's very easy, isn't it, to criticize decisions after they've happened, but on the day, under the pressure with the information that you had, People make the best decisions that they can and that can sometimes be really finely balanced so I think it's important to recognize that what we have here is learning and not a criticism. 

Steve Macabee

Sally, what an amazing way to sum up what is quite a large, a large report and previous reports as well. So thank you so much for that. That was, that was great, you know, to kind of pull all that together at the end. Like I say, it's, it's great that we can spend the time, we can pull out the data, we can look, but actually it's the so what, like you mentioned before, what, what can we do about that? Perfect summary at the end there. Sally, thank you so much. I really appreciated that. It's great to get your input and uh, thank you again for the work of the national panel. It is great to get that national learning and actually see what we can do. Moving forward collectively as individual partnerships across the country, but also as a partnership across the country, keeping children safe. So thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate it. 

Sally Shearer – National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel

Thank you. 

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As always, if you'd like to find out more details on the topics discussed in today's episode or are affected by any of the content discussed, please go to the SSCP website at somersetsafeguardingchildren.org.uk or by following any of the links in this episode description. You'll also find links to the national panel reviews that we referenced. Now, if you enjoy listening to Peapod, we would really appreciate it if you took that time to follow or subscribe to us on your chosen platform, or even better, Leave us a review and let other people know about it and make sure to let your colleagues know about this podcast and encourage them to join us here as well. It really does help to spread the word. If you have any questions or comments arising from today's episode or would like to be involved in future episodes, we would love you to get in touch with us at theppod@somerset.gov.uk. Once again, I'd like to give a huge thank you to my guest today, Sally Shearer from the National Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel, and as always, I would like to thank you for listening. My name is Steve Macabee, and I'm the Training Manager for the Somerset Safeguarding Children Partnership. And I look forward to you joining us again next time at the P-Pod. Let's work together to help keep children safe.