Before we begin today's episode, I just want to reiterate the content warning just given. In particular, this episode covers the sexual abuse of children, which includes the lived experiences of one young person who we are honoured to have allowed us to share her story with us, which some listeners may find distressing and should be considered unsuitable for children.

 Now, today's episode, as I mentioned, deals with the topic of sexual abuse, and this episode originally focused on the support that's in place to support survivors of sexual abuse in the county. However, whilst in the process of recording the episode, I was approached by a young person who was keen to share her story with you today and importantly explained to us her experiences so that we can learn from what happened to her, both from the abuse that she has experienced and importantly from how services responded to that abuse, including what helped and what didn't help.

 So I'd like to introduce you now to AJ who I'm sure you'll find, as I did when I met with her, is an incredible and inspirational young woman.

 00:01:30:18 - 00:02:02:18

AJ

So I was sexually abused by my father for seven years, and I spoke up when I was a. So it started about maybe 899. And I spoke up when I was 15 and I spent basically it came up, blurted out to a teacher saying I was happy to have and things happened. And then I was told to say, all right, everything.

 00:02:02:20 - 00:02:06:23

AJ

And that's how it started from speaking off. Put everything. Yeah.

 00:02:07:00 - 00:02:10:07

Steve Macabee

So what happened on the day that you told somebody?

 00:02:10:09 - 00:02:37:11

AJ

I can actually remember how like the beginning process. I think looking back, I was running an adrenaline because I can't remember actually telling. I knew who I told, but I can't remember saying anything. It's all like one back lie. It was such a like, chaotic day sort of thing. I always thought about telling someone, but I never actually thought her would sort of thing.

 00:02:37:17 - 00:02:44:05

Steve Macabee

So who did you actually tell and why did you decide that they were the person you trusted?

 00:02:44:07 - 00:03:10:05

AJ

So this teacher, she was she's sort of like the teacher that I went to a lot. But the main reason I think I had a really bad morning at the beginning with my parents and then I kind of went to school today and then it all just came out and it came out in her lessons of, they say, that's probably why I told her.

 00:03:10:07 - 00:03:14:21

Steve Macabee

How did you feel when you did actually say something?

 00:03:14:23 - 00:03:39:01

AJ

At first I regretted talking as I actually notice the chair. I just made this up. Sorry. But then I realized this could be the start of him stopping, and they took it further, which helped. I could just remember that my parents are going to be so disappointed to me and just know about. They just could be really disappointed Me.

 00:03:39:03 - 00:03:44:23

AJ

And I was more worried of going home. So afterwards.

 00:03:45:00 - 00:03:51:10

Steve Macabee

Why? Why did you feel you'd be letting people down or feel that your family would be disappointed in you?

 00:03:51:12 - 00:04:15:21

AJ

Because it was a promise between us tonight, daylight breaking promises. So it was like I huge. Still breaking the promise. The school said they were going to speak about or speak to my parents. They told the following morning, just so I be sort of safe going home. So I went went home and everything was No. Why? The college interview then went into the in the morning and then they rang the police.

 00:04:16:01 - 00:04:16:15

AJ

Yeah.

 00:04:16:17 - 00:04:22:02

Steve Macabee

Well, okay, so in amongst everything that was going on for you, you had a college interview as well?

 00:04:22:04 - 00:04:41:24

AJ

Oh, I don't even remember doing the college interview. I have. I don't even remember it until I looked back into the court, like the whole court proceeding that stuff and then notes and stuff and I said, Oh, yeah, I have a close interview that day that you remember and said recently.

 00:04:42:01 - 00:04:46:03

Steve Macabee

How was the support offered by the school?

 00:04:46:05 - 00:05:13:24

AJ

It could have been way better. They as soon as the police had gone off, they kind of didn't really do much afterwards. It was the whole they left it to the social workers, the police, a step back, and the only thing they did was during that day I was in a separate room, which kind of made it worse off, had more course, sat with my own thoughts sort of thing.

 00:05:14:01 - 00:05:18:08

AJ

But I see anything they did, they just left it to the professionals.

 00:05:18:12 - 00:05:31:05

Steve Macabee

So just to take us back for a moment then, you said that after your college interview you went back into school and at that point that's when the police were called. Can you kind of talk us through about what happened next?

 00:05:31:07 - 00:06:04:16

AJ

I went into school and it was all normal. And then after the march station, they called me down to the office and I was there when they rang the police. And and then the police officer came and spoke to me first and then said they were going to go off arrest my father. And then by the end of the day, so about 3:00, they the officer said, my mum and police officers, social workers were in the like a waiting area.

 00:06:04:18 - 00:06:31:09

AJ

So I went out there and and and I remember I went to go and help my mum, I just went to my mum and she pushed me away. She didn't speak to me until we got into the car away from the place and I can remember her saying how could I not notice you're my daughter? And she was like this just like me, a black mum.

 00:06:31:11 - 00:07:20:08

AJ

And that's the only nice thing she probably said before it turned into, you know, if you're lying now, you could say stop. And it just went from that. Yeah. My mum took well everything but from my mum then to me, which I guess kind of should happen because I was a minor, I was only 15 but I everything think was, walked it out with my mum so I did feel a little it was awful because we have to drive with Weston on, on the drive that drives quite long and on the drive there my mum was telling me, You can stop this now, let this out, take over.

 00:07:20:10 - 00:07:48:05

AJ

So when I go into the actual interview, I think it took me 20, 25 minutes to actually say something and I think my actual police interview was insufficient and not a school because I barely said anything or I was speaking loud enough because I, I could still hear my mum and I could still because the doors and quite sound proof a kid I heard my mum cry, so it was quiet.

 00:07:48:07 - 00:07:52:12

AJ

As a 15 year old that was quite an adult.

 00:07:52:14 - 00:08:01:07

Steve Macabee

So you had the police involvement and presumably children social care also became involved at this point. How did that feel?

 00:08:01:09 - 00:08:27:01

AJ

That was the social back and sign to a straight away. And I met her during our police interview that I then she worked with us for maybe two or three weeks of that. We were assigned to announce my my mum said information to my head saying social workers that just don't do that job that can ever be in our family.

 00:08:27:03 - 00:08:52:05

AJ

So in my head, I felt like I needed to avoid her. I think she was actually okay. The first one was it okay? I, I did how I did not struggle. And I look back now and I feel quite frustrated because I wish I could have been a bit more stronger and been able to face my mum and be like actually, this is this is happening.

 00:08:52:06 - 00:08:54:13

AJ

You need to face it.

 00:08:54:15 - 00:09:00:05

Steve Macabee

Can you talk us through about what happened after you're interviewed by the police?

 00:09:00:07 - 00:09:27:17

AJ

My father was I had an arrest and then I went home. Then I think it was the next day my mum came up to my room holding a piece of paper and pen saying I needed to write a letter to the police saying I'm lying. She did this to maybe three or four times. I am I I to physically handle and I had to write it.

 00:09:27:18 - 00:09:49:14

AJ

I had to hand and she made me and she watched me hand. Sometimes I think the fourth time she actually handed in herself got up saying I was too scared to hand in. But I returned to the end and then the police came straight to me. I kept saying, No, I don't want to. This isn't right. I don't want this letter.

 00:09:49:14 - 00:10:02:16

AJ

Is it true? I could. It saved my mum, made me right here because I could lose another parent. And so it just looked bad on me. Thinking kept changing my mind.

 00:10:02:18 - 00:10:15:16

Steve Macabee

Well, okay. It sounds as if that situation at home was incredibly difficult. Did you stay here living with your mum?

 00:10:15:18 - 00:10:41:13

AJ

We broke up for Christmas, right? And I was taken into temporary foster placement and then I was moved into my nan not long before Christmas. And then I left my now for about nine months or so and I did a white GCSE while I was with my nan and then I moved back home with my mum and dad.

 00:10:41:15 - 00:11:04:24

AJ

We did the introduction back to seeing my dad and he did speak to me to say hello, do anything. So I made no effort and it was really awkward, but we were just trying to put a smile on our faces, trying to pray for it because my youngest sister, my younger sister, had no idea what was going on.

 00:11:04:24 - 00:11:06:22

AJ

She was too young to know.

 00:11:06:24 - 00:11:11:06

Steve Macabee

I, I can't imagine how difficult that must have been for you.

 00:11:11:08 - 00:11:33:04

AJ

I think Christmas was the most the Christmas after I moved in the most awkward time because I got I went to school, I cut my mum, my dad's side of the family and I didn't get one. I didn't get any presents. Nothing fit. That was the awkward time. And that's when I realized that actually maybe this isn't the best place to be.

 00:11:33:06 - 00:11:35:13

AJ

And yeah.

 00:11:35:15 - 00:11:40:05

Steve Macabee

So I understand that after this, you went into foster care.

 00:11:40:07 - 00:12:10:02

AJ

It was quite scary because it got to 7:00 when I and my mum left the house in a hurry. Very distressed and I was a bit confused of what was going on. And then we had like a shed saying to me and my brother and the phone went off and it was my mum saying the I need to go pack me and my sister a bag and she said make sure you go pudsey or stuff.

 00:12:10:02 - 00:12:40:07

AJ

So that how long you pay and which day it was me going to my nan which is on my mum's side and, and we went off and it was about maybe 9:00 at night. My nan came to pick up my sister up and then we were there and we have this my nan audited in the room for us and then a social worker doctor in that was saying that they taking us into foster placement for the spiritually for the night until they could buy my nan.

 00:12:40:09 - 00:13:05:00

AJ

I had lived there for maybe a week or two. Yeah. I think we arrived after midnight and me and my sister shared that. But we had our own Bruce. We shared like a single pet because we were so scared. We were worried. We didn't know what was going on. Stella was, I guess, what was going on. I to actually remember once we arrived, my sister say she did want to be here.

 00:13:05:00 - 00:13:24:01

AJ

I wanted to run away. And I said to her I was originally going along with the idea, but then I realized how high up we were because actually go anywhere. I just kind of had to put a brave face of hers. My sister was relying on me, and I think that's when me and my sister got really, really close.

 00:13:24:03 - 00:13:34:18

Steve Macabee

So at this stage you were staying with a foster carer with your sister. How did you find that sort of coming into the care system for the first time?

 00:13:34:20 - 00:14:00:10

AJ

I do remember being who I, I think we didn't have to wear any cigaret. I was not nice. I still was like I was telling them how things were done. I was like, sit kind of standing my ground, making sure they know that they can't mess with me. So I was mainly protecting my sister. They tried to take my sister upstairs, go and show it to the room, and I was like, She's not leaving my side.

 00:14:00:12 - 00:14:19:15

AJ

And she didn't leave my side, these toilets. And they took us to the shop the next day and they said to me, they handed me some money to go and have a look around. They wanted to kind of support my sister by herself. And I was like, No, you know, I'm not leaving her. I was it was a full on they sister mode didn't speak.

 00:14:19:21 - 00:14:45:09

AJ

I did not speak to them. And I did let my sister's death by. So I it was I was terrified of being there. I mean they were absolutely lovely people. And once we got to know them, I kind of let myself a little bit last black bag and kind of in the end, I think my sister did see speak with them by themselves having.

 00:14:45:11 - 00:15:12:16

AJ

Yeah, I, I when I spoke to my foster care about the whole thing, I do remember her giving me advice. I can't remember the exact wording, but she was saying how she's had experience in the past and she knows that it will be okay one day and that healing just takes a little while. And she said that includes you and also your family.

 00:15:12:18 - 00:15:18:22

AJ

She said, You just give it time. You give it a little while and they will come round.

 00:15:18:24 - 00:15:27:04

Steve Macabee

Do you mind if I ask what the situation is with your your family now? Have you been able to to rebuild that relationship?

 00:15:27:06 - 00:16:00:23

AJ

I, think, in the beginning I was always worried they weren't going to believe me, especially my mum. I always knew she would never leave me and yeah, a sort of thing. Yeah. Now she has told me to my face that she doesn't believe me. Yeah, I lost half of my from my family, especially my dad's height. And then when I moved out, I lost my whole actual family and then my mum site, my mum and mum and my.

 00:16:00:23 - 00:16:03:12

AJ

Not all that.

 00:16:03:14 - 00:16:07:09

Steve Macabee

You've also told me that this includes not seeing your sister for a while now.

 00:16:07:11 - 00:16:24:04

AJ

Missed out on her first day of year seven Hovis that her 13th birthday. I have missed out on saving different achievements that big sister always wants to be there for. So and I know she's growing up without me, which is quite sad to say. Yeah.

 00:16:24:06 - 00:16:28:20

Steve Macabee

Do you feel that one day you might be able to reconnect with them again?

 00:16:28:22 - 00:16:37:23

AJ

I am a strong believer that will happen, but right now I still want to give them the space to heal because it's not just only affected me, it's affected everyone.

 00:16:38:00 - 00:16:43:16

Steve Macabee

Can I ask, do you feel that you had a a voice throughout this whole process?

 00:16:43:18 - 00:17:11:17

AJ

They expect my mum to speak to me. My mum never gave me the right information or gave me the information, but saying you're not doing that, we are not doing this. It was a waste from my mum. My mum had every control and I had them because everything I think I don't know, I feel like my mum asked them to give her the information so they could tell, she could tell me.

 00:17:11:19 - 00:17:36:18

AJ

And so I never was with the social worker on my own. I was it was always my mum there until we had to have contact time with her. I hadn't, but that was the only time I could be with social work her on my own. Because to say she spoke to us Facetimes my second social worker, she really didn't help the situation.

 00:17:36:20 - 00:18:14:24

AJ

She unfortunately felt like she made it worse. So that was the problem with leaking personal information and box it to someone else, which the whole crew end up sort of turned to talking about that and I feel like she should have also maybe fought a little bit to speak to me by myself, speak to me without having people around and people that would influence anything I say.

 00:18:15:01 - 00:18:30:16

Steve Macabee

For professionals that are listening to this. What advice would you give them about how to support children, young people who are experiencing sexual abuse or who are disclosing that to them?

 00:18:30:18 - 00:18:54:16

AJ

The year before, I actually from the beginning, since I went to the school, even with my brother, my brother said that he did want to go home because he was scared of his dad. And I kept saying that I don't want to go home like my dad scares me. Why? I say this? And I told him so did anything anything about it?

 00:18:54:16 - 00:19:16:03

AJ

I think because they spoke to the parent and then they were like, Oh, nothing's happening. They did push it, which I feel like they should have done because I think I remember a year before I said that stuff was going on at home. I couldn't speak about it, but they did push anymore. I wish they did. I would say patience.

 00:19:16:03 - 00:19:32:05

AJ

Definitely take time with them. Listen to them to date, force out them. Just let them let it come out and let them and just listen and sit with them and just let them know you're there.

 00:19:32:07 - 00:19:42:23

Steve Macabee

I can ask you as well, for other children, young people who might be going through similar experiences to yours, what advice would you give them?

 00:19:43:00 - 00:20:15:07

AJ

No matter what people tell you, no matter who it is, even if it's your family and they say that they don't play here, I would say 100% that doubtless if you you know, it's true, it's happened, then you stick to that and you fight for your voice. Don't be afraid. So that's the main thing, is it's okay to speak out and it's okay for the journey of speaking out to be long on a difficult world.

 00:20:15:09 - 00:20:21:24

AJ

But there is definitely a light at the end. Yeah.

00:20:22:01 - 00:20:54:18

Steve Macabee

So I wanted to thank you for sharing her story with us, which I think you'll agree is difficult to hear, but so, so important to listen to. So moving on from this, I was really keen to find out about what support is available in Somerset for survivors of sexual abuse such as HIV, and was really pleased to be able to talk to Produce and the Phoenix Project in Somerset who offer exactly that.

00:20:54:22 - 00:21:01:20

Steve Macabee

So let's talk now to Bernard to talk about the Phoenix Project and the work that they do.

00:21:01:22 - 00:21:27:08

Jody Peirson

My name is Jody Peirson. I am the team manager for Somerset Phoenix Project. I've been with Barnardos for about eight years working in various roles, domestic Abuse CSA, and I was around at the launch of Phoenix and was a project worker at the time working with young people who were being referred into Phoenix and have recently come back sort of, I don't know, ten months ago to take on the team manager role.

00:21:27:08 - 00:21:50:01

Ellie Parsley

I'm Ellie, Ellie Parsley. I am a specialist trauma recovery practitioner for the Somerset Phoenix Project. I've worked for Phoenix now for about four and a half years. Previously, I worked for the Domestic Abuse, which was originally side aspect with Barnardos, and then before that I kind of worked in Specialist positions in mainstream education, working with traumatized children.

00:21:50:03 - 00:22:20:18

Steve Macabee

So I think this is an area that I think quite often there's awareness around the issue of sexual abuse, but I think sometimes less of an awareness actually what support is in place around that. So so thank you for joining me. I'll be really good to talk about the Phoenix Project today, but I think before we do, is it possible just to kind of go back a little bit because obviously the Phoenix project sits within the umbrella of Barnardos, obviously a very well known national charity, one of the leading charities in relation to safeguarding children.

00:22:20:20 - 00:22:36:03

Steve Macabee

But if people aren't sort of really aware of the work the Barnardos do, obviously, you know, the name might not know the actual work that takes place within that. Would you about sort of just by kind of talking about firstly the work of Barnardos widely and then I guess sort of the work of Barnardos within within Somerset, if that's okay.

00:22:36:08 - 00:23:14:17

Jody Peirson

So nationally, Barnardos has got quite a varied role and you'll recently see that we've launched new advertising campaigns, we've got quite a strong focus at the moment around campaigning and preventative work around child poverty, supporting children and families who are struggling with cost of living crisis. But there's various services across the country around, you know, universal services for children, but also specific specialist service around neurodiversity, safeguarding crisis work, domestic abuse, sexual abuse, sexual exploitation and criminal exploitation.

00:23:14:19 - 00:23:45:07

Jody Peirson

So it's pretty vast, really, I think behind the scenes as well. Barnardos is doing a lot of campaigning and advocacy, a really high level government level around the rights of children and young people and the right for them to have their voice heard. They have recently published a research paper called Changing Childhoods Changing Lives, which is it's a really interesting read around current trends in and challenges that children face nationally.

00:23:45:09 - 00:24:15:15

Jody Peirson

I think in terms of local work over the years, Barnardos has had services commissioned to deliver exploitation work for children and young people and domestic abuse work, including a perpetrator's program, which was a research project alongside the University of Bristol, which just coming to a close. So be exciting in the next year or so too to find out the results of that in terms of how we can improve lives for survivors of domestic abuse.

00:24:15:17 - 00:24:41:04

Jody Peirson

Currently we have Somerset Phoenix Project, which would talk a bit more detail about in a bit, but we also have the Mandala Therapeutic Service. So that's a team of therapists across Somerset and surrounding counties who provide therapeutic support to abuse children with a particular focus on adopted children and families. And that's been running for a really, really long time.

00:24:41:06 - 00:25:07:16

Jody Peirson

So Phoenix has been around for what we in year seven, so we've been around for seven years and been really lucky to to hold that service for that amount of time. And it's been a real a real honor to do that. So we support children, families, professionals, young people with the ripple effects of sexual abuse and supporting them in their recovery journey.

00:25:07:18 - 00:25:15:18

Steve Macabee

And think it's a really, really important area of work. And I imagine quite challenging area of work.

00:25:15:20 - 00:25:33:07

Jody Peirson

Yeah, I think it is a challenging area of work, but I think it's it feels quite an honor to meet families that are really vulnerable, difficult time in their lives and work alongside them in that in that journey. So it always does well to me anyway, least still feels like quite a privilege.

00:25:33:09 - 00:25:58:22

Ellie Parsley

I definitely, definitely agree. I think meeting being in this role and meeting the young people and children and families that I've met along the way, the start they've had has been so terrible and the world has wronged them and I think essentially like them, even allowing me to come into their world, trusting me with that, forming a relationship with me with that is just so precious.

00:25:58:22 - 00:26:16:23

Ellie Parsley

And I feel very privileged to to be a part of that of that journey. And I think Phoenix is just the starting point for for these young people and children as it's a lifelong, you know, journey for them. But I think, yeah, I feel very privileged to be a part of that as a as a as a work of a Phoenix 100%.

00:26:17:00 - 00:26:28:19

Steve Macabee

Sort of referred to to Phoenix project. And so so what does that actually what's the finished project actually consist of. What does she look like? And I guess because get an understanding about what the team consists of and.

00:26:28:21 - 00:26:30:14

Ellie Parsley

Some wacky people.

00:26:30:16 - 00:26:31:11

Jody Peirson

So yeah.

00:26:31:12 - 00:26:38:24

Steve Macabee

Different roles within I guess, but, but also the kind of the sort of work you do And is there a kind of standard pathway in the work that you do?

00:26:39:01 - 00:27:05:07

Ellie Parsley

Well, I could I could give you a bit about my role, Steve. So I as I've said, I'm a specialist trauma recovery practitioner, so I work with the age range between like one and 18 years. But predominantly my role has consisted of working with teenagers or like ten, ten years old, but in my lowest actually. So my role will consist of like working with schools.

00:27:05:07 - 00:27:26:05

Ellie Parsley

My I tend to try and have a circle of support with that young, put that young person around them and we kind of talk through kind of circle psychoeducation. Forming that relationship is the most fundamental, important bit about about the work that I do. And in that and that's the ethos of Phoenix, is that relational connection between between each other.

00:27:26:11 - 00:27:47:00

Ellie Parsley

And then within Phoenix, we have like a number of other people that have like different roles that work with different age ranges. So we have like people that work with younger ones. So like the Lees, as we says, as as our person course and the Lees and we have other people that work with like teenagers and that older age range of like 18 plus.

00:27:47:03 - 00:27:51:03

Steve Macabee

As well as thinking as quiet as can say, there's quite a skill range you'd need.

00:27:51:03 - 00:27:51:18

Ellie Parsley

Massive.

00:27:51:23 - 00:27:54:23

Steve Macabee

To work, you know, right away like say from, from 1 to 8.

00:27:55:00 - 00:27:55:17

Ellie Parsley

Massively.

00:27:55:19 - 00:27:59:21

Steve Macabee

So you've got sort of specialist workers within that who'd be able to sort of undertake. Yeah.

00:27:59:23 - 00:28:26:15

Jody Peirson

Yeah, yeah. So we're really lucky in Phoenix because we're kind of made up of, you know, we got a social worker in our team and occupational therapists to play therapist and obviously specialist trauma practitioners who specialize in recovery from sexual violence. We work in partnership with SAR SAS. There are our partner agencies, so they provide all counseling for children and young people that are 13 to 18, which is lovely.

00:28:26:15 - 00:28:46:00

Jody Peirson

Obviously they're um. Yeah. So SAS have some a wealth of knowledge that we, we share between us. It's really beneficial to work with them. But yeah, our team actually consists of I think it's about or we're in a bit of a, a change period, but I think it's about four full time equivalent practitioners. So in reality that's, you know, that's seven people.

00:28:46:00 - 00:28:54:11

Jody Peirson

But you know, everyone's full time and we cover the whole of Somerset, so it doesn't go hugely far, does it? We do our best but.

00:28:54:11 - 00:28:58:11

Ellie Parsley

Don't realize how big Somerset actually is. Yes, a huge county. Yeah.

00:28:58:12 - 00:29:36:23

Jody Peirson

Yeah. And within so young people in terms of referral pathways like you were saying Steve, about kind of is there a standard format? Ellie's right, we're very much child and young person led, so we try and meet the needs wherever we can. However, you know, services are commissioned. There are certain criteria that we need to follow. I mean, we take referrals from either professionals, safe parents and carers or young people themselves, and certainly we are seeing an increase in young people referring in themselves, which is great, and seeking help and support, kind of trusting that we're we're going to be able to help them in the way that they need.

00:29:37:01 - 00:29:55:17

Jody Peirson

So once you've completed a request for support, we we run a triage meeting where we get together and have a bit of a conversation about the requests and about the needs of that young person and make sure that we are the right service for them. Following on from that, we make a decision in conjunction with the young person or the parent or carer.

00:29:55:17 - 00:30:20:00

Jody Peirson

The person who knows that child best as to what the right path is for them in terms of support. So there's several strands that you can follow. So we have direct specialist support, which is what Ellie does and what other members of our team, members of our team do across the age ranges. And that is essentially looks like outreach support where somebody is going to come along, meet with you in a safe space wherever you feel comfortable.

00:30:20:00 - 00:30:52:04

Jody Peirson

And that might be at home, in school, out in the community. And they're going to begin to build a relationship with you and at the point where you feel like there's a bit of a trusting relationship going between you and your practitioner, they can then start to think about whether there's specialist recovery elements that you want to look at in terms of, you know, understanding what trauma means, understanding why you might have reacted in a way that is different from how it's portrayed in the movies when someone's, you know, hurting you and really help you in that kind of recovery pathway.

00:30:52:06 - 00:31:24:01

Jody Peirson

And we do that for so usually between 16 and 18 sessions, isn't it? Ellie? And they'll be weekly. If that works for you, it can be fortnightly. We really try and adapt to as much as we can to to meet the needs of children and young people. I think it's important to say as well, young people that are over 13, we don't necessarily need to tell your parents and carers that you've been that you've requested to work with us or that a professional has as signposted you into the service or referred you in.

00:31:24:03 - 00:31:53:20

Jody Peirson

And obviously unless we were concerned about your welfare, but otherwise it's perfectly okay for people to access us confidentially because it can be really difficult to have those conversations. Stay with families like that. The children and young people can find that really hard. Yeah. So the other option is that for 13 and overs is to have counseling, which is dumb as all SAS, and that's up to 24 sessions of trauma focused sexual violence recovery counseling on a weekly basis.

00:31:53:22 - 00:32:15:15

Jody Peirson

That's, I don't know, say deeper level therapeutic work because sometimes people aren't ready for that and that's not the right journey for them and that's fine. But it is more of the, you know, what you see on the telly. Yeah. Format of cognitive counseling, if you know what I mean. Very much talking therapies and processing experiences. We also have a professional consultation offer.

00:32:15:15 - 00:32:32:12

Jody Peirson

So if the professionals are out there thinking, I've got a young person at school, I want to refer them in, but they don't want to meet a new person. They don't want to build a relationship again with somebody else, and they don't talk about this to someone else because they trust me. We can work with you as the professional and just offer you expert advice.

00:32:32:12 - 00:32:51:13

Jody Peirson

Signposting and resources on how to support that young person where they are in that journey. And we don't just do that as a one off. We do it as a bespoke series of consultations because it is bespoke to that young person. Every young person's journey is going to be difficult as everyone, every young person's journey is going to be different.

00:32:51:15 - 00:33:06:03

Jody Peirson

And it's really important that we we tailor to that. So we meet with professionals on a monthly basis for an hour and we can do that over for six sessions to kind of start you on your way. And then you've got a point of contact as well as things develop as that young person moves through their journey.

00:33:06:07 - 00:33:36:11

Ellie Parsley

I think it's good with that as well. The consultation for professionals, because they're clearly doing a really good job because that young person's come to them. We want to empower them to continue doing the amazing job they're doing, and I think that's just really valuable for them to kind of be a part of that with that young person and just know that they are doing like a great job and like we can just be a part of that but from a distance and that they can come to us and, you know, somewhat kind of share or reflect or reflect upon how things have gone with it with that kind of 4 to 6 week kind

00:33:36:11 - 00:33:37:06

Ellie Parsley

of time.

00:33:37:12 - 00:33:45:19

Steve Macabee

I'm just saying in terms of sort of the demands of the service, what are those like? Is it sort of fairly slow and steady or do you have huge demand for the what you do?

00:33:45:21 - 00:34:07:16

Jody Peirson

Sadly, what I say sadly is kind of bittersweet. So there is huge demand. And I think on the one hand that's great that people are speaking out and we're seeing an increase in requests for support because I've got no doubt that the need has always been there. On the other hand, obviously we have spoken about numbers increasing and our concerns around some of those areas.

00:34:07:18 - 00:34:34:01

Jody Peirson

So I mean, currently I worked out last night early and that's quite staggering. But currently we are working either directly with, say, providing outreach, support, specialist support and counseling or supporting parents, carers and professionals with them. We're working with 65 children and young people. Well, bearing in mind there's only four and a half of us, that's pretty massive, I think.

00:34:34:04 - 00:35:08:19

Jody Peirson

Yeah, and kind of shows why we do sadly have have a waiting list because, you know, 65 between four of us is pretty, pretty massive. Yeah. So we do in terms of our demand, Steve, we do have a waiting list of so for direct support, it's it's really about 12 months now. I think if we're being realistic, unfortunately, and for the indirect support options, probably somewhere around 3 to 6 months for professional consultation and therapeutic parenting support, which is it's really tricky.

00:35:08:19 - 00:35:32:21

Jody Peirson

I think sometimes feeds into sometimes it's quite a good point, though, to pick out recovery work, because that's the important thing to remember about Phoenix is when not a crisis service. We're a recovery service. So quite often the the knee jerk reaction to disclosures is to speed everything up and try and fix what's happened and actually the best thing to do is to slow down.

00:35:32:23 - 00:35:58:03

Jody Peirson

So one of our main points of criteria other than the fact you have to live within the Somerset area and you have to be under the age well right up until the day before your 19th birthday, you can refer into Phoenix, but is is around the safeguarding element. So we would expect the crisis responses and the safeguarding to have been addressed by statutory agencies before, before you referred in to Phoenix.

00:35:58:03 - 00:36:21:16

Jody Peirson

So naturally we would you know, it says in on our on our website that we we prefer a few months delay from from the point of the abuse ending to us beginning to even consider opening for recovery support because it is more effective when things have calmed down and that child or young person has had a chance to process What's actually happened.

00:36:21:16 - 00:36:50:08

Jody Peirson

And I don't just mean the actual event, but everything that goes around in terms of, you know, families breaking down, potentially having to move, schools being off school, maybe needing to to have medical examinations or speak to a social worker. And they've never been open to children social care before. They're all massive things. And actually, although it's incredibly frustrating if people are at the right point when they find us, that we have to say there's a 12 month wait.

00:36:50:10 - 00:37:11:07

Jody Peirson

In lots of cases, it's actually really beneficial because by the time they meet their worker, they're there in the right space and they've got, you know, they've got a bit of headspace, too, to really think about that. What we have done recently, though, is really tried to address, you know, it's not okay for for survivors to be sitting on our waiting list for a year with nothing.

00:37:11:07 - 00:37:33:10

Jody Peirson

So we're really working hard to try and address that. We have lots of guides and resources and all those kind of universal things on our website. We also have training packages for professionals and we have downloads where you can download videos around certain areas like dissociation for for Somerset professionals, but for children and young people. There was a bit of a gap, wasn't there, really, in terms of something that they could relate to.

00:37:33:12 - 00:37:36:13

Jody Peirson

So Ellie created a wonderful webinar.

00:37:36:13 - 00:38:00:02

Ellie Parsley

We created the waiting while webinar, which is what originally the original pilot was a full week of content. So young people joining me have an afternoon and just having some, you know, on the mental side. And if they want to use Monty before, it is amazing. I very much enjoy using it but basically it just has some basic psychoeducation and trauma pieces on there.

00:38:00:02 - 00:38:17:11

Ellie Parsley

And just to be able to have like virtual conversations about what young people on our witness already doing to try and empower them about the tools they already have in their toolbox and kind of help them feel that they're all kind of everything they're feeling is very valid. And, you know, and we have some really powerful parts to that.

00:38:17:11 - 00:38:34:14

Ellie Parsley

And I think we then once we ran the pilot, we got the young people to then share with us what they thought about how it went. And it's now been extended to six weeks. And we've added two new subjects into that. So it's a six week program where young people can kind of come in and out of, you know, they can there's no kind of set that they have to be a part of.

00:38:34:14 - 00:38:54:09

Ellie Parsley

That is not compulsory. It's how they feel on the day. And we kind of talk about kind of, yeah, so trauma, the five act responses. We talk about memory, we talk about sleep, we talk about speaking to loved ones, about what's happened to you grounding self-soothing. So they all have their own little sections. But Jody and I do that on a Wednesday evening at 6:00.

00:38:54:09 - 00:39:17:13

Ellie Parsley

And you know, this this particular always been so valuable, but this particular cohort of young people that we've got have been that word art posters have been absolutely amazing to let us know kind of what they're already doing. And I think it's just really powerful for them to see everything synonymous. They don't they don't have their names, they don't speak to each other, but they the mentor allows them to communicate and create something quite magical together.

00:39:17:17 - 00:39:22:08

Ellie Parsley

So, yes, that's an ongoing thing that we've kind of added and it's been somewhat successful, I think.

00:39:22:08 - 00:39:25:20

Jody Peirson

And whilst young people are waiting for us, they could come as many times they can.

00:39:25:20 - 00:39:26:14

Ellie Parsley

So yeah, yeah.

00:39:26:14 - 00:39:29:24

Jody Peirson

And we intentionally keep them quite short. So each session is.

00:39:30:01 - 00:39:30:19

Ellie Parsley

47.

00:39:30:19 - 00:39:56:01

Jody Peirson

Hundred and 45 minutes. Yeah. But that, you know, whilst they're waiting for 12 months if they want to come three times, that's fine. And if there's something else they want to hear about, they can tell us at the end. We ask them for feedback. So some of the other ideas we're exploring for young people that are waiting for direct support are around having little videos of us talking about a particular topic that they're interested in, perhaps having a meet the team paddler that they can get sent to.

00:39:56:01 - 00:40:07:21

Jody Peirson

And yeah, just we were having a conversation even before we saw it, Steve, about whether, you know, Instagram might be a good way to reach young people in terms of them waiting for for Phoenix support and just getting some advice and guidance.

00:40:08:00 - 00:40:18:20

Steve Macabee

So just to sort of into that criteria, just be clear for people. So it's more about recovery as opposed to, I guess responding. Yeah, Way to sort of summarize it.

00:40:18:22 - 00:40:40:05

Jody Peirson

Yeah, I think it is. But we would all, you know, I don't I never ever ever will say no we're not accepting this request for support and shut the door. So if the professional referring still needs some advice and signposting, we will still do that. Like we will will still try and link you in with current exploitation support in Somerset, for example.

00:40:40:05 - 00:40:57:04

Jody Peirson

That's a big one that we we get asked about quite a lot and we absolutely will work with young people who have experienced exploitation. But once, once the exploitation, once exploiters have been have been dealt with and we have a relative of safety for that child or young person.

00:40:57:08 - 00:41:29:14

Steve Macabee

I was really pleasantly surprised, actually, Jody, when you said just now that you're getting more and more young people self referring because I think I sort of was on assumption that mainly referrals would come from social care, police, courts, courts potentially out of it. But actually for for a young person to self refer must be absolutely huge. And I couldn't, I couldn't personally imagine being in that set situation but that must have been a, you know, must be a huge decision for a young person to make.

00:41:29:14 - 00:41:49:24

Steve Macabee

And like you're saying earlier, ideology, if there's already that that kind of trusting relationship with a professional working with them. Actually it's about and it's interesting as we've talked already just now about I think the word relationship came up time and time and time again. Yeah. And and that being so key to the work that, that you do because Yeah, yeah.

00:41:49:24 - 00:41:52:04

Steve Macabee

That's the kind of foundation to do the work from.

00:41:52:05 - 00:42:17:19

Ellie Parsley

Yeah absolutely is is healing you know sexual abuse is a relational trauma somebody that's broken that so you know and these, you know, young people and children living in a world that has, you know, that feels very unsafe to them. So having somebody to come to, to talk to, to trust again is a massive thing. And actually, yeah, we have seen like a recent influx of self referrals in, you know, even my time, you know, four years at Phoenix.

00:42:17:19 - 00:42:21:15

Ellie Parsley

It definitely has been more of a increase in self referrals for sure.

00:42:21:15 - 00:42:49:12

Jody Peirson

And I hope some of that is part because, you know, there is no doubt the peer on peer abuse is is something that is we're seeing as an increase in all in our service for sure. And young people really struggling with with having healthy relationships and healthy first kind of sexual experiences. And I'm hoping in part that is because survivors of sexual harm are feeling empowered to reach out and say that this is not okay.

00:42:49:14 - 00:43:13:23

Jody Peirson

I also hope that, you know, perhaps there's young people out there that have heard about Phoenix and know that their friends have had support from us and that we we do work from a very relational point of view and, well, you know, absolutely honor your confidentiality and work with you where you are. Sadly, I also think is a trend nationally, isn't it, that those kind of peer on peer abuse is is on the rise?

00:43:13:23 - 00:43:19:10

Jody Peirson

Unfortunately. So we currently got we're going to do some preventative work around that. And really.

00:43:19:12 - 00:43:38:08

Ellie Parsley

We are. Yes, we are. We've got a workshop happening at the end of March actually for professionals to come to about misogyny, which is out which is currently fully booked. But we're going to see how it runs when, you know, when we deliver it. And then if it's if it's really successful when it goes really well. I think these are the kinds of things and subjects are really important to discuss.

00:43:38:10 - 00:43:57:00

Ellie Parsley

I think with, you know, the increase in peer on peer and general attitudes in society at the moment with what we're seeing is obviously impacting a lot, you know, a lot of our young people and their views and ideas about how things should be in relationship should be and stuff. So this is offered out to professionals at the moment.

00:43:57:00 - 00:44:18:03

Ellie Parsley

But I think I think definitely having those really open discussions and non-judgmental kind of moments with young people are just really crucial in understanding like what their experience experiences are and like, how's that looking for them when they're heading into relationships or forming new ones of people that might seem to be having differing views to them? How do they cope with that?

00:44:18:03 - 00:44:34:19

Ellie Parsley

How do they deal with that? So yeah, so that's that's happening at the end of March. So we're going to see how that goes and hopefully that will be successful and saying we can continue to run. And looking at the, you know, the complexities of misogyny, you know, in society and what's that, how's that impacting our young people right now?

00:44:34:21 - 00:44:36:08

Ellie Parsley

Because I think it definitely is.

00:44:36:14 - 00:44:41:15

Jody Peirson

Both boys and girls. And, you know, it's not it's not necessarily agenda thing either, is it?

00:44:41:16 - 00:44:43:04

Ellie Parsley

No, no, no, not at all.

00:44:43:10 - 00:44:44:00

Jody Peirson

Both ways.

00:44:44:00 - 00:44:44:22

Ellie Parsley

Yeah, absolutely.

00:44:45:00 - 00:44:55:24

Jody Peirson

And I think Ali's being a bit modest. It's her workshop. There's already six people, 60 people booked onto it and a waiting list of about 30, I think. So I'm sure there'll be more of those coming today.

00:44:56:01 - 00:45:22:11

Steve Macabee

I never get it because it is a it is a huge need and, you know, obviously something that was was highlighted within the 2021 Ofsted. Yeah, yeah. Sexual abuse and harassment in schools obviously came into keeping children safe and education is a big focus. But then alongside that we see all the the media attention of people like Andrew Tate and that issue of misogyny and, and I certainly colleagues from Educationists saying, look, you know, we're seeing this all the time in the classroom.

00:45:22:11 - 00:45:42:01

Steve Macabee

Yeah, it's there. And certainly if anybody hasn't listened to it, we recorded a podcast around sexual abuse and harassment in schools with members of youth Parliament, you know, people who were really clearly saying, yeah, this is part of the day to day lives for sure. This is not a big sort of one off thing or something that's just happened and then it's gone.

00:45:42:03 - 00:45:45:09

Steve Macabee

This is this is part of our lives on a daily basis.

00:45:45:09 - 00:46:03:18

Ellie Parsley

Yeah, absolutely. And it's opening up the conversation. But maybe not to like certain genders, but like generally everybody, because I think we're all somewhat guilty of having some unconscious feelings about things. And I think having those open conversations and safety with each other is really important. And I think as professionals, everybody, we're all we're all part of that.

00:46:03:18 - 00:46:22:07

Ellie Parsley

And yes, so hopefully it would be it would be really good. But I think I think also it's pretty important. But, you know, with misogyny in this workshop, like there's a really good piece of work about hopes and fears of young people, which is you can just look it up on Google and it's a massive piece of paper of like the hopes and fears of young people during the COVID pandemic.

00:46:22:09 - 00:46:41:23

Ellie Parsley

I think that certainly has exacerbated a lot of things, you know, around conspiracies and all those kinds of things that we're seeing from young people now. And certainly within the Phoenix Project, I think we're definitely seeing views that necessarily wouldn't have been there before. We were hit by, you know, the pandemic. So I think it's really important to bring that into things as well.

00:46:42:00 - 00:47:10:06

Jody Peirson

I do think as well, it's given rise to see some. Yeah. So child sexual abuse material being circulated amongst peers. Yeah. And I think there is a danger, Steve, if we don't keep jumping in this, that we're going to tip into a professional fatigue. Yeah. Because it is so rife, particularly in secondary schools. I can understand with the pressure on education at the moment, how that becomes further down the list of, you know, this is just how young people behave kind of narrative.

00:47:10:08 - 00:47:47:23

Jody Peirson

And I think it's really important to remember that actually, you know, children shouldn't be viewing pornography. They shouldn't be having that that constant stream of really quite violent, aggressive, pornographic acts that are circulated between peers or, you know, indecent images of peers and to to somebody else in class without their consent and so on and so forth. And I think as well with with the way that technology's going, perpetrators are getting better at developing materials online, using avatars and using, you know, artistry, if you like, the essentially is still counted as system.

00:47:47:23 - 00:48:08:12

Jody Peirson

It still is, but the legislation isn't quite there yet. And that's a big part of the campaigning that Barnardos are doing in terms of protecting children. And I guess my my ask would be for professionals not to turn a blind eye to that because if we don't show there's a problem and a need, we're never going to have the back up to to make any changes for our children and young people.

00:48:08:13 - 00:48:36:18

Steve Macabee

We are in a sort of a growing, evolving world around safeguarding around abuse. And and I think, you know, traditionally when when you think about child sexual abuse, you would think about sort of direct contact abuse and familial sexual abuse taking place. But like I say, I think evolving all the time. And, you know, like you say, in terms of images that are being created who aren't of even of real children.

00:48:36:23 - 00:49:00:04

Steve Macabee

Yeah. And it's throwing up all those questions in amongst a world where we not only have direct access to instant information from all around the world, but also false information from around the world at your fingertips. Yeah. And being sort of flooded with it. And I think young people are actually not just young people, everybody having to navigate this really quite complex new world.

00:49:00:04 - 00:49:24:07

Ellie Parsley

So confusing, so complex and is in your pocket, isn't it? I think that's the thing is there's no there's no escape from it. And I think, you know, there was a typology back in 2019 from the center of expertise talking about the different CSA typologies. And what came from that was, you know, was the two worlds of, you know, the virtual reality, you know, or digital, you know, coming together.

00:49:24:07 - 00:49:40:11

Ellie Parsley

And you know, and really merging. They are they are colliding with each other. There is no such thing as kind of that anymore, I don't think, because they are coming. That is just it's just all very quickly and before we are ready for it to happen, I think we're not ready to deal with that, I don't think as of yet.

00:49:40:11 - 00:49:50:08

Ellie Parsley

So this is having to act really quickly. But this is a really good typology to tap into that one and have a look at, I think in this on our training, isn't it that we tend to talk a lot about.

00:49:50:10 - 00:50:16:21

Jody Peirson

And Barnardos hosts the the center of expertise that Ellie refers to. So the center of expertise nationally for for child sexual abuse, including exploitation, is hosted by Barnardos and we were talking yesterday about exactly that overlap. There's loads of if you Google them as loads of really useful research papers, infographics, lots of bits of, you know, stats and information available on their website.

00:50:16:23 - 00:50:35:04

Jody Peirson

And it's certainly something even Phoenix we've, we're really we hold quite strong to the fact that yes, we do this work every day. We've been doing it for seven years, but no one knows at all. No. So knowing where to go to get the next piece of information or evidence or understanding of the experience of children and young people that have been through this is really important.

00:50:35:06 - 00:50:53:19

Steve Macabee

Just sort of going back to what we're talking about as well in terms of demand. And did you did you see a big sort of spike in demand or sort of continuing demand following some of the sort of the big kind of awareness issues like the Ofsted review or kind of going back a little bit from that? Everyone's invited.

00:50:53:22 - 00:51:00:05

Steve Macabee

Oh, yeah. The murder of Sarah Everard. Karen, have you seen kind of an increase coming out from those?

00:51:00:05 - 00:51:16:23

Jody Peirson

Yeah, I think we have. And I think what we see is an increase in those is the self referrals as well or the parent carer referrals. They both, they both tend to spike when there's a little bit of a light shone on, you know, this is, this is abuse, this is not okay, essentially is what that media narrative is, isn't it?

00:51:16:23 - 00:51:23:11

Jody Peirson

I'm feeling like it's okay to speak out, I think is we definitely see a spike in that.

00:51:23:12 - 00:51:44:00

Ellie Parsley

I definitely think everyone's invited opened up a massive door for people to give their own testimonies, to have their own time, to have their moment of sharing their stories. And I think, you know, it's always something that I refer to when I speak to young people about, you know, resources and things is everyone's invited because it is powerful.

00:51:44:00 - 00:52:10:18

Ellie Parsley

They are absolutely terrible stories and break your heart. But they these are people that are wanting their time that they didn't get. And I think that's where, you know, self-referral has come in from or, you know, the young person I've spoken to speaking to friends and then there might be a self-referral coming from that. So it's just having that conversation and letting young people know like where these where these amazing, you know, everyone's invited movements are or, you know, and other things that, you know, that are accessible.

00:52:10:20 - 00:52:28:09

Ellie Parsley

Say it Loud is also something on Instagram. It's a really, really good place for for young people to go to. And there's really good resources on there for people to have that moment as well. Like it's just having that conversation with each other and not keeping it in secret, which I think has been a societal thing for a long, long, long time.

00:52:28:11 - 00:52:49:22

Jody Peirson

I think he'll speak again as well when the the new legislation around educate well, not just education, but any provider that work with children and young people. If they become aware that there's been a sexual abuse offense against a child or young person, that they're bringing it into legislation, that it's you have to disclose it, you have to seek support for that child or young person.

00:52:49:24 - 00:53:12:22

Jody Peirson

You can't just brush it under the carpet or, you know, we're all really, really busy professionals. It becomes really easy, like I said earlier, to minimize those what used to be seen as lower level abuse type like typologies. And the new legislation coming in will really support us in in our campaign of saying when you must speak out, you're the you're the voice for that child or young person.

00:53:13:02 - 00:53:16:24

Steve Macabee

And that's that's coming from the the recommendations from the independent inquiry is Yeah.

00:53:17:05 - 00:53:19:06

Jody Peirson

Yeah that's right. Yeah.

00:53:19:08 - 00:53:31:12

Steve Macabee

And yeah. And it's it's interesting we were originally expecting that to come in to working together. It's like our children update from this year obviously wasn't late, but you say it has been under consultation and will be coming in.

00:53:31:12 - 00:53:55:06

Jody Peirson

Well, I think it's important to get it right, Steve, because we don't want it to be a world where children and young people are disempowered, so they disclose to their teacher for argument's sake, and that teacher goes where I need to go and tell these five people that's not what that legislation means. And I think that's why it's undergone such a lengthy consultation period to make sure that children, young people who've been sexually abused, like Eddie said earlier, have had all their power and control ripped away from them.

00:53:55:11 - 00:54:13:16

Jody Peirson

And it's really important that we we don't replicate that in our moments of support and disclosure that we're doing the opposite. So it needs to be done in a balanced way, which is why I think it's taken a while for for that inquiry to formulate, you know, the best practice advice that it can.

00:54:13:19 - 00:54:25:00

Steve Macabee

All the other common themes is it predominantly into familial sexual abuse? Is it predominantly peer on peer abuse or is it a real, real sort of mix?

00:54:25:02 - 00:54:46:14

Ellie Parsley

I'm just trying to think of the people I've worked with in my past. It's been a lot of intra familial abuse, peer on peer, definitely. I think there is definitely increase in that and new cases that are on my caseload. It's but I think it is a mixed bag. I think there is that kind of idea that sexual abuse happens by stranger, but generally it's not like that at all.

00:54:46:14 - 00:54:57:08

Ellie Parsley

It's usually somebody you do know that is trusted to be able to be that close to you. So yeah, it's always kind of maybe a friend or something like that as well. We've had many times of a family friend.

00:54:57:11 - 00:55:16:23

Jody Peirson

Yeah, either I would say predominantly. Steve, intra familial or the family network, you know, close family, friends, Yeah. Cousins, uncles, aunties, those kind of relationships sadly. And then peer on peer they're the predominant to that that we get in front of us but not you know not the only ones but definitely sticks out.

00:55:16:24 - 00:55:35:01

Steve Macabee

It's funny, I remember those campaigns when I was younger of Stranger Danger, actually. I know. And actually how unless you get it right, that can be quite damaging. Like you say of one, all these strangers, you've got to be know them. But actually it's like say quite often it's is people who are in that direct kind of network.

00:55:35:05 - 00:55:39:15

Steve Macabee

Yeah. Around the child young person has access to the child. Young person. Yeah.

00:55:39:17 - 00:56:00:16

Jody Peirson

And I think it's a really it's a really easy way to manipulate and puppeteer the situation as well, isn't it, If you've got pedophilia Cohiba phallic tendencies and you want to target a child or young person, if you've already got a relationship with them, you're you're really confusing that bond. You're you're able to control the narrative around it.

00:56:00:16 - 00:56:27:24

Jody Peirson

You're able to pile on secrecy, shame, doubt. And ultimately, that child or young person knows that when they speak out, it it could shatter families. And I can understand why it's so hard just to say what's happening. And also I always think back to a young person said to me once at the end of the day, you're asking me about what might be my first sexual experience being abusive or not, and nobody sits there and has that conversation with a stranger.

00:56:27:24 - 00:56:53:19

Jody Peirson

You don't sit there in a pub having a drink, do you, with somebody you've just met and talk to them about your relationship as an adult, an intimate partners. And yet we're expecting children and young people to to make these huge disclosures and give huge bursts, personal accounts using words that are, you know, shameful, embarrassing and awkward and, you know, we will always say and probably quite important to mention, like look for the signs.

00:56:53:19 - 00:57:13:10

Jody Peirson

Look for the signs, look for what the young person is trying to tell you. And quite often they'll make pre disclosure as so they'll come out with bits of information that you think, Why are you telling me that? And they're testing you as as their person. Let's see if you're not go into shock and and make them feel even worse about this big thing that happened to them out of their control.

00:57:13:12 - 00:57:34:22

Jody Peirson

And I think once you start looking for those cues and those signs again, center of expertise, we've got a great signs and indicators tool that you can download if you're starting to have these thoughts that just help you organize what it is you're seeing. Because nobody wants to think the unthinkable, but it's really important that we do. And I think, you know, sometimes we have young people that come to us and they, like no one asked.

00:57:35:01 - 00:57:37:24

Jody Peirson

That's why I didn't say no one asked. No one saw.

00:57:37:24 - 00:58:05:05

Steve Macabee

It quite often. We imagine in terms of becoming aware of abuse, we imagine, okay, we find out about abuse because a child, a young person comes to us and they disclose something. But like you say, to to imagine how difficult that must be. Absolutely huge talking things. Very, very personal. Extremely personal, which, like you say, you wouldn't generally sort of want to disclose to people, but also there's connotations.

00:58:05:10 - 00:58:11:04

Steve Macabee

You could be removed from your family, your family member could be removed from you. Absolutely huge.

00:58:11:04 - 00:58:46:19

Ellie Parsley

It's like a grenade, especially if it's intra familial, like in somebody or a sibling or something like that. That's, you know, that's abused the the the at the young person. It's like a grenade going off in your family because you've got such conflicted, confusing feelings about both that say and how you want to navigate that. And you know and I think as well I think we also need to bring light to, you know, these perpetrators who, you know, have also potentially groomed like parents and family and, you know, and that's been a massive, massive issue.

00:58:46:20 - 00:59:10:22

Ellie Parsley

You know, in some of the cases I've worked with because it's been so hard to open up about that because that person is so loved and, you know, how are they ever going to change that or upset that? And that is just that's the most big, biggest part. I think when I've worked with it, you know, a good few young people were like, how am I ever going to get out of that person because they are so loved within my network?

00:59:10:24 - 00:59:25:12

Ellie Parsley

How can I possibly do that? So I think I think it's also bringing light to like how other people within that process itself, the victim is a survivor, but actually like the family unit are also very much victim to that perpetrator. Massively so.

00:59:25:14 - 00:59:27:00

Jody Peirson

And that they're never to blame.

00:59:27:00 - 00:59:27:19

Ellie Parsley

No.

00:59:27:21 - 01:00:08:10

Jody Peirson

It's the only person who holds responsibility is perpetrating the abuse. And I think, you know, Phoenix, when we first started, we didn't have the capacity. I mean, we saw there was two full time members of staff across the whole of Somerset. So we didn't have the capacity to offer adult adult support. We do now. It's limited, but we do have capacity to offer safe parents and carers counseling for 16 sessions and it doesn't have any bearing on whether that child or young person gets support or the professional network around that child or young person is just for them to explore that secondary trauma and that sense of a this has happened to my child, but

01:00:08:10 - 01:00:21:11

Jody Peirson

be I feel like I should have done something. Yeah. And that is it's really beneficial because like Ellie said earlier, children and young people often come to us, right? Really right at the beginning of their recovery journey is.

01:00:21:11 - 01:00:21:16

Ellie Parsley

Yeah.

01:00:21:16 - 01:00:41:05

Jody Peirson

And I think one of our workers, Shelly, she uses the pink elephant analogy where you, you know, your your role is to try and make the massive elephant in the room manageable so it can sit on a shelf and it will always be part of their life, and sometimes it will blow up and fill the room. Yeah. And the elephant in the room is back.

01:00:41:07 - 01:01:16:11

Jody Peirson

But, you know, we need to support to shrink it back down again and help that child or young person continue in their journey. Without a doubt, parents and carers are fundamental in that. Yeah. And professionals that have longer term relationships with those children and young people than than we can as a commissioned service. I mean we can do with with some cases up to 24 weeks of support, but really part of our role is very much advocating and empowering others around that child to to walk them through life, to keep that elephant in a in a manageable size.

01:01:16:11 - 01:01:16:16

Jody Peirson

Yeah.

01:01:16:21 - 01:01:47:18

Steve Macabee

You sort of mentioned about the importance of of of asking and young people saying, you know, I was never asked and and I know you know often junior people they will this is a bad way phrasing it but they'll drop hints they will yeah they want people to ask and I think I think quite often what I see is people being quite anxious, professionals being quite anxious about about asking, about having that conversation.

01:01:47:20 - 01:02:05:23

Steve Macabee

It can be a really challenging area and I think the professionals can feel quite unsafe sometimes thinking actually, if I ask this question, how do I deal with the potential response here? I know if you got any advice for any kind of professionals working with young people where you think actually is there something there? How do I have that conversation?

01:02:05:23 - 01:02:21:05

Ellie Parsley

We talk a lot about this in our training courses. Obviously, when we have like how you can help the part. Right at the end of the day, we've got through all the big stuff, the bit, you know, in the morning and we, you know, and that's always a massive a massive topic of discussion is like, you know, I don't want to get it wrong.

01:02:21:05 - 01:02:44:08

Ellie Parsley

I don't want to say the wrong things. But essentially, like that person, as I always say in the training, if that person comes, has come to you, let's say, and there that there's something wrong and you might not know what's wrong, but they've come to you and you're trying, you're trying to work out together what's happening. That's kind of like already an amazing start because they are wanting something from you and they need that from you.

01:02:44:08 - 01:03:13:19

Ellie Parsley

And I think that shows like the amazing relationship that you formed with them. So I think it's empowering that actually I don't think you are going to get it wrong because something already terrible has already happened in those moments, having empathy and understanding and an openness that they've seen in you to then come to you. I think that in itself is like a huge thing that maybe doesn't get recognized because we think about the question you're going to ask, but we don't think about like the non-verbal parts of things that way where you are in the room together.

01:03:13:21 - 01:03:41:24

Ellie Parsley

What is that going to look like? And maybe they are just looking at you to ask those unthinkable questions. So I think it's to me that's a really important part that I think gets overlooked sometimes as to what's already there and looking beyond the questions you think you have to ask. But having a conversation and seeing where that gets you and then perhaps, you know, being more confident enough to think about, okay, I've got my suspicions because it's having those little pieces of the puzzle that you kind of need that form, that picture.

01:03:41:24 - 01:03:56:08

Ellie Parsley

So if that's that one piece you still haven't asked about, Yeah. Having that in your mind I think is really important to kind of bring up that actually you, you might need to ask those questions, but you are not going to get it wrong unless you literally leave that room when someone's disclosing you're lying, going to deal with us.

01:03:56:13 - 01:03:58:06

Ellie Parsley

I can't see how well.

01:03:58:06 - 01:04:15:00

Jody Peirson

You hit the panic and you go, someone's disclosed, I need to run off to my safeguarding. Yeah, yeah. And I think quite often that some of the worst things that young people share with us is that they might disclose to. I don't I don't mean to just pick on education, but they see kids more than any other service.

01:04:15:00 - 01:04:27:09

Jody Peirson

But so they might disclose that to you or their Elsa work or whatever or at least, you know, lean towards a disclosure and then the next person they need to speak to is the DSO. Yeah, it's a safeguarding lead.

01:04:27:09 - 01:04:28:19

Ellie Parsley

And actually sometimes.

01:04:28:19 - 01:04:56:02

Jody Peirson

That that's not the person they want to talk to know. And, you know, we would always advocate that the safeguarding lead absolutely has a fundamental role in a journey. But their role is to contact the professionals that need contacting to think about next steps in a in a kind of safeguarding capacity. Always leave person who took the disclosure with the person disclosing, you know, and just slow down, don't panic, be kind, be gentle.

01:04:56:04 - 01:05:08:19

Jody Peirson

All of the things that if it was you, your child, your uncle, your daughter, your niece, your nephew, your stepson, whatever you would want for them in their journey, just come back to that.

01:05:08:21 - 01:05:11:13

Ellie Parsley

But also, like you've done a really good job because they've come to.

01:05:11:14 - 01:05:13:01

Steve Macabee

Yeah, absolutely. It should be an honor.

01:05:13:01 - 01:05:38:08

Ellie Parsley

That it's actually it is is it is an honor and privilege to to receive that. And I think you being part of that journey and continuously so we would always advocate that they must be side by side with each other as much as they possibly can, because that person has been chosen to receive that. So, yes, So I think if you have if you you know, if you don't generally have that young person in front of you and they are wanting to speak to you like you've done a bloody good job already, to be honest.

01:05:38:10 - 01:05:39:06

Ellie Parsley

Yeah.

01:05:39:08 - 01:05:46:11

Jody Peirson

They won't remember what you, what you ran off and did and I told them remember how you were with them in the room and how you made them feel.

01:05:46:11 - 01:05:46:20

Ellie Parsley

Yeah.

01:05:47:01 - 01:05:47:19

Jody Peirson

100%.

01:05:47:19 - 01:05:48:16

Ellie Parsley

Always.

01:05:48:18 - 01:06:07:24

Steve Macabee

If somebody is receiving support from the Phoenix Project, what advice would you give around that, that kind of support network? Would you say it's better for that, say that that trusted adult to leave it to you guys and not not raise the subject. You know no or actually be part of that journey with.

01:06:07:24 - 01:06:33:01

Jody Peirson

Them I think be led by the young person. Yeah. Is the tricky bit. So sometimes we work with young people that their parents don't know what's happened. They don't want school to know it. They they just want Phoenix support and they just want to be kind of working alongside us for that area of their life because they don't want the ripple effect to affect those other things like into school or, you know, whatever.

01:06:33:03 - 01:06:56:11

Jody Peirson

It's very important for them to to ring fence it. And then for others, it can take a long time. Conor Ellie So you might work with someone for eight, nine, ten weeks before you can say to them, I really think we need to get mum on board like, or dad on board or, you know, or your teacher, Let's think about how we can build this into, you know, find someone else we can trust and then others.

01:06:56:11 - 01:07:06:11

Jody Peirson

It's really clear from the beginning that they, you know, we, we definitely need to network around this young person and they're open to that idea. And we can work with professionals and advocate.

01:07:06:11 - 01:07:25:00

Ellie Parsley

Yeah. And I think it's it's allowing for that circle of relationships to continue happening because really because they've lost that it's allowing other people who are trusted by that young person to be involved in this journey with them because they don't have the, you know, the relationships they should have had because that's been broken and taken away from them.

01:07:25:02 - 01:07:46:21

Ellie Parsley

So say that to that. We spoke about just a minute ago. If I was to go into and that young person was going to support from Phoenix and I was going to be me, that first person, I'd be going to with that young person. But if I was allowed to by the young person to go and speak to their person, they wanted me to within that school would be probably the to who received that disclosure and go to them and be like, right, okay, because they are so important.

01:07:46:23 - 01:07:59:08

Ellie Parsley

And that joint working is is essential, you know, with that young person for sure. And I think it's I think it's very necessary to to have that with with young person support for sure.

01:07:59:10 - 01:08:18:06

Steve Macabee

You mentioned a minute ago about in terms of who's to blame. And often I know from working with union people, often they blame themselves and sometimes they're right. There is kind of blame from people within the community, within the family themselves. And sometimes we sort of talk about language and how language, Oh, yeah.

01:08:18:08 - 01:08:21:04

Jody Peirson

Don't get me started.

01:08:21:06 - 01:08:25:02

Steve Macabee

Let's let's talk about language for because again, language changes and evolves all the time.

01:08:25:02 - 01:08:26:11

Ellie Parsley

And it does.

01:08:26:13 - 01:08:41:05

Steve Macabee

And again, I've had conversations with with with people where we talk about, you know, a young person was putting themselves at risk. Oh, yeah. So do you see that? Yes, I got quite a reaction when I mention that. I'm assuming so.

01:08:41:05 - 01:08:44:23

Jody Peirson

It was a visceral reaction. I think I can feel myself flinching in the chair saying.

01:08:45:02 - 01:08:47:02

Steve Macabee

What sort of things do you say?

01:08:47:04 - 01:09:13:03

Jody Peirson

Oh, great. You go, So this is one of my bugbears. You're going to get me on my high horse now, because I really I think it's so important. So I think when you start using the wrong language about children and young people being responsible for their own abuse, that leaks into every bit of your your work with that, they'll know young people will know that you are you are positioning some sort of blame on them.

01:09:13:05 - 01:09:49:21

Jody Peirson

So alarmingly, fairly recently we've had because quite often between me and our amazing it will be one of us three that see the initial request for support, the initial email saying I need a hand with this case. I don't, I don't know what I'm doing. And I opened an email and essentially it was pertaining to the fact that the child, a young person, had she'd been a victim of sexual abuse historically and was now in her teenage years, and the email was saying that she had put herself at risk and allowed herself to be in the community where she'd been raped again.

01:09:49:23 - 01:10:12:07

Jody Peirson

And it was those very key words that essentially are saying she has done this to herself. She has put herself in a position where this has happened to, her and I did. I had to take 24 hours for, I replies, because essentially no child or young person or no person hang on, let's take the child out of it for a minute.

01:10:12:08 - 01:10:42:17

Jody Peirson

No person can consent to their own sexual abuse or rape. It's just it's not a thing, let alone a vulnerable person. So a child or young person can never, ever, ever give consent to their own rape, sexual abuse or exploitation. And think if you repeat that as necessary, it will stop you putting those sentences in documents that say they place themself at risk of, you know, they they are never the person that is placing themself at risk of.

01:10:42:19 - 01:11:11:03

Jody Peirson

And quite often if they've been traumatized in the past as well, they're blind to those risks. There's no good sitting there trying to justify how they are allowing themselves to be retraumatized or to have repeat victimization. They they are targeted. They are vulnerable people that are targeted by a group of adults or perhaps older peers or whatever that are finely tuned to seek out those vulnerabilities.

01:11:11:09 - 01:11:34:19

Jody Peirson

And that will be a subconscious level often when you know, even, you know, but they is it's so important. And I would just always urge professionals to think about if you were whatever your writing about that child or young person or their family for that matter, if you were reading that about yourself, how would you feel? And if the answer is not great, then you shouldn't be writing it.

01:11:34:19 - 01:12:14:01

Ellie Parsley

No, and I think it's important to look at like the wider the wider lens as well of like obviously there's professionals, but we've got society in general about the language that's used surrounding, you know, big news stories that are about sexual abuse or big figures that have allegedly committed sexual violence against other people and how that comes. So when your say if that person has put that charge risky behavior and that's and seeing that in society, you're hindering that for that young person to feel valued and understood and they'll be they'll be feeling that blame and shame continuously So and shame is so hard to get rid of.

01:12:14:01 - 01:12:35:20

Ellie Parsley

It's such a curse for us humans to have always have shame, but it's really tricky to undo that. And I think, you know, if you if you are playing a role where we already are seeing those things in society, we're seeing language that's really damaging and victim blaming. A lot of the time, it's just adding to that and it's adding to that wider lens of how difficult that makes it for that young person.

01:12:35:22 - 01:12:37:03

Ellie Parsley

For sure.

01:12:37:05 - 01:13:04:10

Jody Peirson

And I think we do. It is is so entrenched in society still, isn't it? So without a doubt, boys and young men are horrendously victims of childhood sexual abuse. But if you think about the societal narrative around women and girls, somebody said this to me the other week and it really resonated with me that we we teach girls to be victims from the very beginning and apportion blame to them from day Dot.

01:13:04:10 - 01:13:27:04

Jody Peirson

So you teach girls not to walk down streets, dark streets on their own, to carry their keys, and that these are all things I remember being taught to carry their keys in their hand in case they're attacked. The responsibility is then on that victim. Yeah, that girl to not allow herself to be raped, sexually assaulted, whatever, while she's out in the community, or you a party or whatever it might be.

01:13:27:06 - 01:14:06:21

Jody Peirson

We're not sitting there going, Please don't walk down the street and rape people. Yeah. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, we do it in really subtle nuances in language, both in like early said society, in professional schools, in professional analysis of cases like we it is really subtle. And I think the ripple effect and the impact later in life, if that young person wants to read their records or, you know, if it if it goes to court, we recently were doing some joint work with them, the Green House project at the moment, and they came in and gave us that Blue Star training last week around keeping, you know, case records for court

01:14:06:21 - 01:14:25:08

Jody Peirson

and just to really make sure that we're really careful because it can blow cases apart as well if you apportion blame to the victim in your you know if a social worker, for example, wrote like the example I gave you about the email and saying she placed herself at risk, if that went to court, it would be ripped to pieces.

01:14:25:08 - 01:14:31:17

Jody Peirson

Yeah. And used used against that person who has, by no fault of their own, been victimized.

01:14:31:19 - 01:14:38:13

Steve Macabee

You just mentioned the greenhouse project. There is that is that sort of another project under Barnardos or is that something so no separate.

01:14:38:13 - 01:15:05:03

Jody Peirson

So there they're a Bristol project who support children and young people in recovery from sexual abuse and we have a very small bit of joint funding with them by the from the Ministry of Justice. So the main part of our commission is from Somerset, ICB, so the NHS, but we have a very small bit of funding with greenhouse to try and increase our capacity to reach out to very hard to reach children, young people and families.

01:15:05:03 - 01:15:27:23

Jody Peirson

So that might be because of I don't know that the culture, the background displaced people, for example, who wouldn't necessarily know coming to this country that there might there might be a project like a PHOENIX project. So we're doing some joint work with around that. And recently we went up to Bristol and took part in a festival of activism.

01:15:28:00 - 01:15:49:20

Jody Peirson

Yeah, so called Beyond Beyond Therapy. And that's it's in its second year, but it's essentially a one day festival that welcomes survivors, families of survivors, allies and professionals basically, and practitioners to come together and and have a massive like event. It was such a great day.

01:15:49:20 - 01:15:53:18

Ellie Parsley

It was it was lovely because it was about getting rid of the secrecy around child sexual.

01:15:53:19 - 01:15:56:15

Jody Peirson

Yeah, it was in a public space.

01:15:56:17 - 01:16:13:06

Ellie Parsley

It was open to the public. Eventually in the afternoon, you know, anyone could turn up to that. And it was, you know, it was the cafe was still open, so they knew it was happening. So it wasn't hidden. It wasn't closed. And I think that's a massive straight in that we are not going to be secret about this anymore.

01:16:13:08 - 01:16:25:02

Ellie Parsley

And I think, you know, there were amazing workshops and panels of amazing people that were talking about really big stuff about healthy masculinity, talking about wearing mar We did we did a workshop about Marston with.

01:16:25:02 - 01:16:43:19

Jody Peirson

Our workshop was around essentially the masks that children wear. Yeah, particularly with a with a focus on education that what is being presented on the outside of that mask be that anger or you know, attitude or whatever isn't necessarily the felt sense inside. And it was really powerful and it was a really good day.

01:16:43:19 - 01:16:44:13

Ellie Parsley

Yeah, it was.

01:16:44:13 - 01:16:52:12

Jody Peirson

But there was music there and poetry and some artwork. So yeah, we do. We have done some some small pockets of joint work with Green House.

01:16:52:12 - 01:17:04:14

Steve Macabee

So are there any other sort of projects that you're involved in in Somerset or sort of wider, but you reference to Mandala Project earlier, Are there any other projects that you want people to be aware of?

01:17:04:16 - 01:17:36:13

Ellie Parsley

Yes. So Barnardos Working have done a partnership with the Co-op co-op stores and basically we have highlighted that, well, they have highlighted 20 locations across the UK that are struggling with social mobility. So looking at how to meet young people in these 20 locations, happier, healthier and to be able to access opportunities. And one of those locations that have been highlighted has been the Sedgemoor area, so predominantly Bridgwater and Highbridge.

01:17:36:15 - 01:18:03:11

Ellie Parsley

So part of my role as a voice and influence worker is to speak with young people and create a service kind of like early intervention, I suppose. So back to the good old days of youth clubs and youth and youth and what's come from that, from the amazing young people we've spoken to in Sedgemoor is that we are launching a social kitchen and board game kind of bonanza, which has been this is what the young people have wanted to cook together, to eat together, to be around each other.

01:18:03:11 - 01:18:24:09

Ellie Parsley

I think that certainly we can all understand that's probably been lost over the last few years. So we are just kind of in the process of creating this service in the hope to kind of launch that in kind of late April time. So it's all very exciting. So, you know, there is kind of a loose kind of referral part of that at the moment, but I don't want to delve into that too much and get lost.

01:18:24:09 - 01:18:34:19

Ellie Parsley

But essentially, if the location has been given out, please, young can come along to that. So yes, that's a really nice project to kind of have for young people to kind of meet each other and be around each other.

01:18:34:20 - 01:18:46:00

Jody Peirson

And I think what's really empowering about that project is that one, the key pieces that Barnardos and Co-op agreed is that it has to be led by young people. Yeah, all the research into what this project's going to look like has been.

01:18:46:00 - 01:19:01:01

Ellie Parsley

Is that by then I think that is so powerful, I think to have them and for us because, you know, essentially adults aren't always getting it right these days and I think they're a bit annoyed about that. So having young people to kind of be like, right, this is what we'd like. I mean, there have been some wacky ideas.

01:19:01:01 - 01:19:11:18

Ellie Parsley

I'm not going to lie, but the social kitchen has been a lovely concept that I love that I didn't think would be so mean. They would choose. So yeah, So that's it. So that's launching in April. Yeah.

01:19:11:20 - 01:19:21:21

Steve Macabee

If anybody listening to this wants to find out more about the work of Barnardos or the work of Phoenix Project or any of the other projects you've got going on, where's the best place to signpost people to?

01:19:21:24 - 01:19:47:24

Jody Peirson

So we would really welcome emails from people. I quite often get emails to either the Phoenix Project email, which is available on our website. So if you just Google Somerset Phoenix project, you can find our email address and all our contact details on there and. I quite often get emails from professionals who are going, you know, we don't have I don't have permission to put a referral in for this or requests for support for this young person, but this is what I'm saying and I need some help.

01:19:47:24 - 01:20:04:10

Jody Peirson

And you know, we are we're not a massive service, but we will always do our best to offer best practice, advice and signposting. And if I can't do that, someone in the team will just just reach out, email us. And I guess we're very busy. So if if you don't get a reply from me quick.

01:20:04:10 - 01:20:27:13

Ellie Parsley

Enough and some professionals that I've with before, I think for me, like when I worked with professionals, I kind of always have that relationship. Yeah, all the time. And I think, you know, so I get professionals that are still calling me about random things they want to talk about and discuss. And I think that's really important because it carries on that relationship and that connection with each other to make sure that we're all doing what's necessary so it's very valuable, I think so, yeah.

01:20:27:15 - 01:20:29:15

Ellie Parsley

Anyone knows me, you know, you know, my email.

01:20:29:15 - 01:20:42:04

Jody Peirson

And if you know, if it's about one of our partner services. So if it's about Mandala or about the whole. Yeah, you know, always email in and we will direct you to the kind of the best person to speak to. That's not a problem at all. No.

01:20:42:06 - 01:21:00:02

Steve Macabee

Right. Thank you. I'll pop the link for the Phoenix Project into the description for this episode. Right click on the link on that and yeah, be great for them to link up with you and support the work that you do. Yeah. Yeah. So love that. Thank you so much for coming in and an important thank you especially for the work that you do.

01:21:00:04 - 01:21:03:02

Steve Macabee

It's very challenging but very, very important area.

01:21:03:03 - 01:21:03:18

Ellie Parsley

Thank you.

01:21:03:20 - 01:21:05:01

Jody Peirson

Thank you for having us.

01:21:05:03 - 01:21:10:19

Steve Macabee

It's been absolute pleasure. And yeah, if you've got any other projects in the future and want to come and talk about them, it would be great to have you back.

01:21:10:21 - 01:21:12:15

Jody Peirson

I say thank you. Thank you.

01:21:12:16 - 01:21:13:15

Steve Macabee

All right. Take care.

01:21:13:17 - 01:21:15:02

Ellie Parsley

Bye.

01:21:15:04 - 01:21:28:24

Steve Macabee

Now, before we call it a day on today's episode, I wanted to go back to talk with AJ, who we heard from at the beginning of today's episode and see how she's getting on now and what support she's been able to get.

01:21:29:01 - 01:21:59:08

AJ

I'm very happy where I am. I started through the Phoenix chat, but they have definitely helped and I have a copy editor five sessions with them. I would say definitely feel a difference to speaking to them and they're the sort of therapy where you can meet the when, wherever you want to, when you are, and they're not the sort of person have this scripted therapy session and you could talk about whatever you want and when.

01:21:59:10 - 01:22:13:24

AJ

And if you want to talk about something you can talk about when you want, when you're ready. I definitely feel like I'm on the right path to start healing from it. Yeah.

01:22:14:01 - 01:22:39:13

Steve Macabee

A very special thank you tonight to AJ for showing the bravery and determination to share with us her story in the hope that it will help to improve the situations for others who have faced or are facing similar challenges to the one that she herself has experienced. And of course, to help to inform us about how we can more effectively safeguard children as well as support those who have been affected by abuse.

01:22:39:15 - 01:23:02:02

Steve Macabee

So if you've been affected by the contents of today's episode, please see in the description links to where you can find further support. As always, if you'd like to find out more details on the topics discussed in today's episode, go to the SSCP website at SomersetSafeguardingChildren.org.uk or by following any of the links in the episode description.

01:23:02:04 - 01:23:20:05

Steve Macabee

If you enjoy listening to people, we'd really appreciate it if you took the time to follow or subscribe to us on your chosen platform, or even better still leave us a review to let other people know about it. It really helps to spread the word and talk about spreading the word. Don't forget to tell others about it and encourage them to join us here as well.

01:23:20:07 - 01:23:40:17

Steve Macabee

If you have any questions or comments arising from today's episode or would like to be involved in future episodes, we'd love you to get in touch with us at ThePPod@Somerset.gov.uk. Once again, I'd like to give a huge thank you to my guests, Jodie Pearson and Ellie Parsley from the Barnadros Phoenix Project and to AJ for sharing her story to us.

01:23:40:19 - 01:23:54:10

Steve Macabee

And as always, I'd like to thank you for listening. My name is Steve Macabee and I'm the training manager for the Somerset Safeguarding Children Partnership, and I look forward to you joining us again next time at The P Pod.