Tackling Child Exploitation

00:00:14:24 - 00:00:38:09

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Okay. Welcome back to the people at the Partnership podcast from the Somerset Safeguarding Children Partnership. Now, today, I'm really excited to have our guests come in and talk to us about a subject that I think is an incredibly important one and one that's only actually really been on the sort of public consciousness only for about the last ten years or so, and that is the subject of child exploitation.

00:00:38:11 - 00:01:00:20

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And I wanna say this is a fairly new sort of concept and recognition in terms of safeguarding and really came out from some of the national reviews, such as the Rotherham inquiry, where for the first time we identified and recognized risks to children, people outside of the home environments. And up until that point it was very much focused on parents and whether they could or couldn't be protective towards their children.

00:01:00:22 - 00:01:19:23

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

So coming out from Rotherham and some of these other national cases, we really started to recognize those risks outside of the home to children and started to really think about how we can put in place safeguard measures to protect them. So there's been a lot done in Somerset and certainly going back to around the same time was the other in Rochdale.

00:01:19:23 - 00:01:44:13

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And that is a local case review in the old format, the serious case review called Operation Fitness, to which I know many people are familiar with in Somerset. If you not do have a look on the ACP website where we have got that case review in detail. But if you're not familiar with that case, that was quite a significant case of child exploitation that took place in Somerset and a huge amount has been learned following that time and a huge amount has been done.

00:01:44:13 - 00:01:53:23

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And and that's why I'm going to bring in our guest for today, Chloe Devereaux, who is the team manager for child exploitation in Somerset. So, Chloe, welcome today.

00:01:54:01 - 00:01:56:01

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Hello. Thank you for having me.

00:01:56:02 - 00:02:06:22

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Absolutely. Pleasure. It's great to have you here. And I know that a lot of the work you do and I we've worked quite closely over a number of things over the years. And so it's great to finally be able to get a chance to to get you into the studio and talk to you.

00:02:06:24 - 00:02:08:07

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Brilliant. Great to be here.

00:02:08:10 - 00:02:23:23

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

So, Chloe, do you want to start off just kind of first of all, of about yourself ready if you had to kind of give us a bit of a background about kind of your background, your experience in working within the field of child exploitation and what your or your current role entails, really?

00:02:24:00 - 00:03:02:23

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, sure. So I've been working in the council as a social worker since 2017. I first started in Safeguarding Team and did that role for around three years, and that is where I first learned about what child exploitation was on Case. Hold it. I worked for a few children and families who sadly been exploited. And then this role, which I'm currently as I see LEAD, came up in 2020 and it was something that really interested me and I thought this definitely to not speak be doing in Somerset.

00:03:03:00 - 00:03:36:18

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So we now started fully have expanded to have five workers within the team and we cover the whole of the county. So just to give an overview of the roles. Our teams main focus is to support young people at risk or who are being exploited and we want to help keep children safe in their communities where possible. So we have one lead social worker and together have and I give guidance to social care, family intervention workers on the youth justice team who are supporting those at risk.

00:03:36:20 - 00:04:08:22

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

We do this via consultations, assisting at meetings, as well as providing training to internal staff on foster carers and external staff. We also have to add new key support workers who are on a 1 to 1 basis with young people and they provide targeted exploitation interventions and we're soon be joined by a key family support worker who will support those that care for a young person at risk, whether that will be parents, carers or family members.

00:04:09:01 - 00:04:22:19

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

This is the law here. So child exploitation is a really it's a difficult area. It's a very, very difficult area. It's very motivated, does impact victims in a really severe way. What was it that made you think, Oh, you know what? That's why I want to get stuck in too.

00:04:22:21 - 00:04:49:10

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

I think because like you said at the start, it's a fairly new subject, although exploitation has been around for many years, is still quite new in terms of legislation, services recognizing I'm learning by exploitation and therefore I feel like this makes it even more important that the role will have some influence over developing practice and help provide a good service for children and families.

00:04:49:12 - 00:05:18:03

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

And you are right, it's a really challenging and difficult area. However, it's a privilege to be able to help children and their families in some shape or form and be in this team with such committed workers. We are really lucky in Somerset that there are lots of dedicated and committed professionals across all aspects of children's services, and we have really good relationships with the police, education, residential providers, house and many more.

00:05:18:05 - 00:05:34:21

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So it can very much feel like we're part of one big team. And I guess most importantly, we know that can be so hard for children and families to speak out when they're being targeted. So I feel very passionately about trying to help advocate for those victims who don't have a voice.

00:05:34:23 - 00:05:50:07

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Lovely. Well, thank you. And so in terms of child exploitation and it might be something that people have heard of very familiar with, for some of the people, it might be something that's completely new to them. So would you be able to explain for us kind of what is child exploitation? What's that? What does that mean? What's that look like?

00:05:50:10 - 00:06:24:22

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So child exploitation would be an umbrella term, which would include sexual exploitation, criminal exploitation. It would include the trafficking of children and also financial exploitation. So exploitation is where there would be a group or an individual that would take advantage of a young person. So any child under the age of 18, they would manipulate the capacity, perhaps use violence into forcing them into sexual or criminal acts.

00:06:24:24 - 00:07:00:00

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

There would be some sort of exchange involved with that. So the young person would possibly receive gifts or could be a pair of trainers, clothing, money, alcohol. It doesn't have to be that physical item. It could also be a status or sense of belonging. And so there's some sort of exchange within that grooming. But I'm very careful when I use that word exchange, because what I don't want to suggest is that actually that young person is kind of receiving something good within that exchange.

00:07:00:00 - 00:07:08:12

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

They are very much a victim. Children can't consent to their own exploitation. So there is a lot of harm that takes place within that grooming process.

00:07:08:12 - 00:07:28:14

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And I think that's an important point that you raised about that, that exchange. Like I say, that's kind of how it's generally turned out. But I think it's a really important one because quite often people either don't recognize exploitation because of that exchange or if they recognize it, we can kind of intentionally sort of blame victims sometimes and saying, well, actually.

00:07:28:19 - 00:07:45:13

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

But I think that's a really important point. Isn't recognizing that victims there is an exchange that takes place, whether that's they say, whether it's financial or whether it's material, whether it's a roof over your head. And I think there's a risk where we kind of go, well, you know, she did end up staying there, for example. And I think there's a real risk in that.

00:07:45:13 - 00:07:46:20

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And so it's important to highlight.

00:07:46:23 - 00:08:14:04

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, definitely. I think we often hear some of our victims, you know, they will describe the groomer as their boyfriend or girlfriend, and to them very much will mean that they will very much perceive that they're in a like a loving, healthy relationship. However, as professionals or adults around these young people, we need to see past that and just understand that, okay, actually that's what it looks like or that's how it's presented to the young person.

00:08:14:10 - 00:08:18:02

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

But they are a victim and that's just how the grooming takes place.

00:08:18:04 - 00:08:37:22

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And this is certainly a developing areas now. And like I mentioned at the start that we sort of talk about Rotherham like Rochdale, even more locally within within Finestra. I think early on we're talking about child sexual exploitation and there was a much, much greater awareness of that initially. But now like say certainly in the last what we say, seven years, six, seven years or so.

00:08:37:22 - 00:08:38:03

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah.

00:08:38:08 - 00:08:59:17

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Thinking about criminal exploitation and certainly the kind of the rise of awareness around county lines, around gang involvement and now that kind of that wider recognition that actually these are very often very much intertwined. It's not it's not one or the other. There is a there is a link between them, which I think is there why we then talk about child exploitation as a wider issue there.

00:08:59:18 - 00:09:24:24

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think we can't put exploitation in kind of set boxes. It's not, I think possibly years ago without the education we used to perhaps think, oh is there any girls that got sexually exploited? It's only boys that get criminalized, treated thus. So far from the reality of it, we know they're all intertwined. We know that we're seeing an increase of girls that are being criminally exploited.

00:09:24:24 - 00:09:39:18

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

There's an increase in boys that been sexually exploited. There's no sort of set typical way the exploitation happens or there's no typical victim is very much. Yeah. Or all very complex and ongoing situation.

00:09:39:23 - 00:09:54:18

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

So what are we kind of looking at in terms of the kind of the current sort of prevalence and trends of exploitation, both both nationally and I guess on a local more local basis? Do we see the same things locally as we see across the country, or is there anything sort of different within Somerset that we tend to see?

00:09:54:20 - 00:10:22:05

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, I think Somerset picture definitely reflects what we see nationally. So through my work I have to speak to a lot of different local authorities and kind of national charities. And what we're all seeing is that criminal exploitation appears to be on the rise and that is kind of been gathered through data and numbers. And what appears to be the case is that sexual exploitation is decreasing.

00:10:22:08 - 00:10:46:09

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

However, even though we've all acknowledged that that's the picture we're seeing, we all agree that it doesn't reflect the reality. Right. I think we know that with exploitation like many forms of harm, it's really underreported. And we never really know the tree scale of what is going on. There could be many different reasons why we think that criminal exploitation is increasing.

00:10:46:11 - 00:11:14:14

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

And for example, it could be that criminal exploitation is perhaps a little bit more obvious to detect because, like you said, with county lines and children, possibly kind of listeners, different musical things that goes on with triggers that come to exploitation response, however, is sex exploitation possibly a little bit harder to detect? It could possibly be a little bit of a harder topic to have with that young person.

00:11:14:16 - 00:11:27:18

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So I think although that does seem to be the national and local picture in terms of the statistics and data, we know that actually we need to see past that and understand that exploitation in all its forms is increasing.

00:11:27:20 - 00:11:44:06

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And and you mentioned about sort of boys and girls being vulnerable to both criminal exploitation and sexual exploitation and what sort of age ranges are we talking about with children here? We tend to we tend to kind of really thinking about the older teenagers or we we kind of looking right the way across the age band, really.

00:11:44:08 - 00:12:20:07

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So I think it's fair to say that Broome is in exploitation. It doesn't discriminate. So a victim could be any age, any Gemma, any background. There's not that typical victim. However, what we do tend to see, especially in Somerset, is that older teenage years. So I was actually looking the other day and I think 15 year olds are kind of most targetted age and with that being said, it would very much change the way I could look at the same kind of information within two months and that could be a completely different age.

00:12:20:09 - 00:12:38:11

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So I don't want to give any kind of focus information on this. Is the particular age to look for. I think worryingly we are seeing victims become younger, going younger nationally. I said that there's children as young as eight years old that are being exploited. So as you can imagine, this pretty horrific picture.

00:12:38:13 - 00:12:56:07

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Nothing along with that as well. We kind of can sometimes have these kind of images of the type of children that are affected by exploitation. But I know, again, nationally and locally, that's certainly not the case in terms of these kind of stereotypes of which children are more likely to be exploited. And do you see that as well?

00:12:56:09 - 00:13:37:21

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. We never quite yet see actually there's a typical kind of person is, you know, any age, any background, any culture. I think in the past we very much used to use that word vulnerable and suggested only vulnerable children. But actually exploitation can target any young person from any background. And I think what we've especially seen in the last couple of months is exploiters have in particular targeted young people that don't have any additional services, whatever capacity that might look like, but young people that don't have any kind of support.

00:13:37:23 - 00:13:41:01

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So it's less oversight as such.

00:13:41:04 - 00:14:00:20

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

I remember a young person a number of years ago said to me from quite an affluent family, high achieving in school, straight A's, really good school attendance, no criminal record and like that was involved in exploitation. And I remember talking to him and and he sort of said to me, well, think about it. You know, who are the police going to stop going down the road?

00:14:01:00 - 00:14:10:11

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

They're going to stop me that they don't know. And I've got no record and you know, or are they going to stop somebody they know fully well? They know their family, they know everything else? Yeah, I think that's always a fair point to make.

00:14:10:12 - 00:14:26:14

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. I think the time that we've been there in is being used is clean skins. So children that don't have any, say, criminal background, no involvement, they tend to describe those young people as clean skins and they're the ones that have been targeted quite often.

00:14:26:17 - 00:14:44:22

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

We kind of mentioned about the impact on victims here and obviously does have a very profound impact on victims. And particularly, I think like you mentioned earlier, and often victims don't even recognizing they are victims of abuse, feeling like they're in relationships with the abuser. For example, that boyfriend model that you mentioned there. And what would you feel?

00:14:44:24 - 00:15:00:04

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

It's kind of immediate and the long term impacts on on of exploitation, on children really as victims. And how do you how do you see it sort of affecting their their emotional, emotional, emotional and mental health and their wellbeing?

00:15:00:06 - 00:15:40:01

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

I think it impacts every aspect of a child's life. So sometimes certain things can be more obvious, but we would see that actually it impacts on a child's mental health and wellbeing. So they may be made to feel kind of really low and kind of dehumanized because that's very much part of the grieving process. We see a big pattern in terms of children not attending school anymore, so not having that education provision and not reaching their education potential, we often see really kind of low self-esteem.

00:15:40:01 - 00:15:57:10

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

And actually, you know, we've heard a few young people say, well, I might as well do this because what's the point? I've got nothing else going on. For me, it's kind of it's as if that grooming and that harm from that grandma's just taught them that actually this is all they're good for, which we know obviously isn't a case.

00:15:57:12 - 00:16:35:18

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

I think we see a lot of strain between families because obviously we know this incredibly traumatic for family members or whoever is caring for that young person. And for that time being, it can really put a strain between children and their carers and family members and siblings. We often see physical injuries, self-harm. It could be perhaps that young person is trying to get away from that groomer and they're physically injured and threatened the kind of emotional impact that will come with being threatened and I think that definitely carries out through the rest of their life.

00:16:35:20 - 00:17:03:08

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

That grooming process is quite a complex process that actually is very hard for a human to ever come to terms with and quite difficult to ever really acknowledge, isn't it, that I was a victim of of that harm? And of course, sometimes we do see that children are criminalized. Obviously, we try and avoid that. And there's lots of really good work to to not have young people go down that criminal route that unfortunately, sometimes that can't be helped.

00:17:03:08 - 00:17:15:01

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

And through exploitation, they are. And then that can have an impact on employment, university and jobs later in life. So I think yeah, this definitely long and short term and kind of all aspects.

00:17:15:03 - 00:17:18:07

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Do you see a lot of victims blaming themselves for exploitation?

00:17:18:07 - 00:17:49:24

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, definitely. So we often see at the start victims will sort of laugh off if we try and suggest some you know, you're a victim. They would say I'm very much in control. I you know, I'm not being told what to do. And then I think if ever there is that realization, it's that kind of cycle of blame, because I think obviously they want to as I said, it's really hard, kind of acknowledging the fact that you've been a victim and treated in manipulated and threatened in that way.

00:17:50:01 - 00:18:01:12

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So I think they for some reason, sometimes it's easier to think, oh, no, I chose that life. I chose to do it when we know they didn't. But it's I think it's a really hard thing to come to terms with.

00:18:01:16 - 00:18:20:07

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

So what would you say in your experience? What would you say is sort of some of those sort of red flags? So there's kind of indicators, there's warning signs around, sort of the educators, individuals, agencies should be aware of. You kind of you see as these kind of common things that come up.

00:18:20:10 - 00:18:48:14

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

I think the main thing is we see a real change in behavior and that can take place in many different shapes and forms. We would see young people come become more secretive, possibly with just their everyday life around where they go and who they're going out with, possibly their online use. Not wanting to talk about that, we would possibly see the young child go missing or staying up.

00:18:48:14 - 00:19:26:06

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Later, a different routine to what we had seen, perhaps a change in physical appearance, the way they're dressing, perhaps more makeup, less makeup, maybe wanting to listen to different types of music. We know that has quite a correlation with criminal exploitation and perhaps disengaged with things that they used to enjoy. So whether that school or club or spend time with family that will be in said, I do think it's really hard because a lot of the things I've just said are very much normal adolescent.

00:19:26:06 - 00:19:26:18

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Behavior.

00:19:26:23 - 00:19:54:14

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Is. Yes, So it is it is really complex. And we do understand that because actually it could be very healthy for a young person to become a bit more withdrawn and just a bit more private. That's just part of adolescent life, isn't it? But I think if you are the adult in that young person's life, you know, you know them really well or professionals working with a young person, just be really curious and kind of trust your instincts around actually, is there something going on here?

00:19:54:16 - 00:20:00:05

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

I always say it's better to ask those curious questions and try and explore it than than not at all.

00:20:00:07 - 00:20:19:01

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

I think one of the things you said there was, which is quite key, is around change, because I think there's a risk sometimes we can say, Oh, okay, they've got a new pair of trainers or they've got a bit of money or something. So yeah, and it's right to be vigilant to these things. But I think if you look at things in isolation, it doesn't paint the full picture, whereas it's it's about change, isn't it?

00:20:19:02 - 00:20:28:05

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Like you might you have somebody who's who's naturally more withdrawn. They don't socialize so much, they spend more time online. But it's about that change from from previous behaviors and sort of indicating that.

00:20:28:05 - 00:20:53:16

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, definitely Yeah. Is just trying to suss out, isn't it, what is going on at work. And I think just adding to that, the importance of trying to explore that is multi-agency working and working with the people. So are we linking in with schools asking if perhaps they've seen a change? You know, we know that education is a really important part of children's lives, or are they going into a sports club and have a really good coach they're fond of?

00:20:53:16 - 00:21:00:16

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Do does the coach see different? It can paint a really bigger picture if we're kind of speaking to our friend who's important for that child.

00:21:00:18 - 00:21:38:07

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

One thing I wanted to pick up on from what you're talking about is around some of the complexities around exploitation and how it's it's not straightforward. And we've already kind of talked. It's just we've been talking now about quite often, but sometimes victims not recognizing that they are being exploited. Sometimes we talk about this complexities around behavior change, which might be perfectly normal, but also, I think the complexities around those kind of traditional safeguarding methods and those traditional policing methods, you know, often wanting were needing that solid concrete evidence to say, right, we can we can do something now.

00:21:38:07 - 00:21:53:16

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And I think certainly coming up from from Rotherham, inquiries certainly come out from finished or locally was a recognition actually we've got to shift this thinking and these traditional models just don't work in the sense. So what sort of complexities do you see around this?

00:21:53:18 - 00:22:18:22

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, I think there's a lot. I think we see that a lot of victims won't want to talk or share their story because they're worried that it won't lead to anything, it won't lead to any convictions. I mean, we know that conviction isn't necessarily all the success it takes. You know, they've still suffered that harm. But I think that's a big barrier in children and families wanting to share that story.

00:22:19:02 - 00:22:40:15

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Evidence is really hard because the young person's voice is so important and obviously will be believed. But I think that is the barrier for young people is a worry that actually what I say won't be believed because they've been told by that groom that actually no one's going to believe you. So that's on really hard thing to come forward.

00:22:40:17 - 00:23:05:16

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

And I think just in terms of legislation and policies, I think nationally we've come a really long way, which is really good. But like you said, the star exploitation is seen as still a fairly new topic. And actually there's a really long way to go in terms of the legislation matching kind of the current reality of what's going on, and it will do so a little bit outdated.

00:23:05:16 - 00:23:12:10

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So I think there definitely needs to be a shift to support professionals in kind of providing that service to young people.

00:23:12:16 - 00:23:30:22

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

So is with to in terms of of legislation, in terms of guidance. So it's always kind of evolving, but, you know, kind of not feeling it. We're always playing catch up with you I guess within this might be a tricky question, but in terms of your role, if you kind of had a wish list, it's actually if I could change one thing around this in terms of legislation, what would it be?

00:23:30:24 - 00:24:01:09

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

I think it would be something around the evidence. So not having obviously within the courts, there does have to be a certain level of evidence to get someone prosecuted. I think, unfortunately, that can be a really hard thing to collect and not always available or really hard to prove because actually there's so much responsibility on that young person sharing everything and feeds and everything.

00:24:01:11 - 00:24:24:18

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Obviously, we have really good kind of methods of gathering intelligence that professionals can do to help convictions, but I think there's still a lot of emphasis on the child happened to share that story, which is really hard. So I think something around the kind of course, you know, making it more official in terms of exploitation and actually is a crime.

00:24:24:18 - 00:24:27:13

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

And we need to be really running with that.

00:24:27:15 - 00:24:29:02

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Getting everybody else up to speed.

00:24:29:04 - 00:24:30:15

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Oh, yeah, definitely.

00:24:30:21 - 00:24:51:21

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And you mentioned and you mentioned earlier about sort of that maturity partnership working and I know again, certainly going back to Finestra and there's been this sort of big shift, a big drive, but in Somerset and I know there's been lots of developments within the police and you're working very closely with police and within Europe and within within Jordan, social care and with wider partners.

00:24:52:01 - 00:25:03:05

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Do you want to talk about some of the some of those kind of preventative measures that have arisen in that time over the last few years? And also kind of those those I guess, the preventative measures, but also there's measures in place to to support victims.

00:25:03:07 - 00:25:40:15

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

There is lots of really good things that have happened in Somerset and lots to be proud of. So within the police there's the Topaz Child Exploitation Team and they work really hard, really dedicated team, really knowledgeable. So they work off kind of receiving that intelligence and then try and put through disruption. So it's a responsibility for lots of professionals to add intelligence through the portal on the Avon and Somerset website, and then the police can use that to methods of destruction and to try and identify perpetrators.

00:25:40:17 - 00:26:08:13

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

They go off the basis of the young person, shouldn't have to disclose everything. Actually, it's the work of everyone else to try and explore that. So that's really good that we have that dedicated team because, you know, they're not everywhere in the country does. So we're very lucky within Children's services. So as I said, we're lucky that my team is expanded and there's more people on the ground to help with our early help in our family intervention service.

00:26:08:13 - 00:26:37:21

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

We've got the Pemex team, which is prevention of missing and exploited children, and there's a dedicated team who work with young people at risk of exploitation. They're really dedicated. The relationship building and lots and time spent to kind of really explore and help safeguard those young people. And then we have other links and partnerships such as the Violence Reduction Unit, who we work really hard with.

00:26:37:23 - 00:27:06:09

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

They their remit is much broader than exploitation, but actually they concentrate on serious youth violence and there's kind of lots of partnership work and that goes on there. And a really good example of how we would all work together is our community action days. So that's when we would have professionals from children's services, police, health, education, charities, and we do focus on a particular area that may be showing a recent concern.

00:27:06:11 - 00:27:32:10

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

The aim would be to walk around, speak to members of the public, make them aware of exploitation, speak to local businesses, upskill them, go into schools, go into those hotspots that we've been worried about and speak to the young people. And they've been really, really successful days. And it's really good that we can kind of all go out there on the ground to really kind of identify those local places that need it.

00:27:32:16 - 00:27:54:24

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And I think that's key to, isn't it, like you say that that that joining up of agency working around information sharing, you know, always comes up all the time. But I think particularly in relation to exploitation is so key is yeah and you mentioned Topaz there if people aren't familiar with Topaz like Chloe mentioned, is the police operation really about having the ability to gather intelligence, gather information?

00:27:54:24 - 00:28:15:09

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Because like I say, often we are aware of these that kind of soft intelligence that those kind of often that gut feeling something doesn't sit comfortably, but not something that would potentially prosecute somebody. But actually that could be a really important nugget of information. So that ability to share information and join up those dots is absolutely crucial, isn't it?

00:28:15:09 - 00:28:35:22

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, definitely. If even if you feel like that piece of information was only a really small piece of information and you didn't feel it had much significance, we'd really urge you to please submit it because actually you could be submitting something which is part of the bigger piece of the puzzle. And that's, you know, the police work really well to put that all together.

00:28:35:22 - 00:28:45:11

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So please, you know, share as much as you can and kind of use your curiosity and judgment around that needed that needs to be shared.

00:28:45:13 - 00:29:01:24

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And that's key. And I think that's one of the messages I'd want to get across, is even if somebody is listening to this and sort of picking up their ears and can actually hang on, this is this is kind of making me think about something. You could have one piece of the jigsaw that can make the world of difference, you know, even if it's fairly circumstantial.

00:29:01:24 - 00:29:21:06

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

But actually you think actually know what it's worth in any way. And I think that would be one to be one of my messages to people is even if you don't feel like it's hard, concrete evidence, if you've heard a young person talking about something or somebody or something, you're saying just pick enough things. You mean to actually make sure you get that through to Topaz?

00:29:21:06 - 00:29:23:08

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Because say that could be the vital key.

00:29:23:10 - 00:29:34:23

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. There's, you know, that goes through to the police, unless they're all trained in putting it all together. So actually definite any bits of information you've got is so important to share.

00:29:35:00 - 00:30:11:15

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

That you have to. It is making me think. I think when, when any criminal exploitation started coming into to the Somerset area and we first started becoming aware of it, I was managing front line practice at the time. And it was interesting because we we were working with a number of quite vulnerable families and we just started picking up a lot of the single parents of quite often we're working with started talking about this new boyfriend that got and they started I wouldn't say the name, but they started sort of talking about a name and we just started picking up that this name was popping up in a few places around the place, and it

00:30:11:16 - 00:30:27:11

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

just kind of picked Arias up a little bit about who is this, this guy? And it turned out it wasn't a person, it was the name the county line. Oh, wow. And yeah, that was the name being used. And again, that was a really important piece of intelligence for the police to say, actually, this is the name of the county line.

00:30:27:11 - 00:30:42:08

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

This is the areas that they're working in. So it was very, very early on in those days, but it was really sort of key and quite a eye opener for me that we'd been working on the basis that that this name was a person as opposed to a county line.

00:30:42:09 - 00:31:04:17

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, definitely shows that we've come a long, a long way as well, because I think that you're right back then, not even very long ago there was little education around how exploitation works and we didn't really know how it presented. So yeah, that's it just shows, doesn't it, that actually we're much more aware and there's so much more education and guidance on actually what that looks like.

00:31:04:17 - 00:31:05:23

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So it's a real positive.

00:31:06:00 - 00:31:27:04

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Yeah. And I think the other area that's, that's progressing, I think there's still a way to go is around language that we use. And again, in sort of the years I've been working in this field, it wouldn't be uncommon a number of years ago for people to be talking about a young person putting themselves at risk further back than that.

00:31:27:10 - 00:31:36:20

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

I hate to say it, but you hear people talking about the prostitution themselves. And have you seen have you seen that sort of the use of language evolve over time?

00:31:36:23 - 00:32:14:16

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, we've definitely seen a change in language in a positive aspect. So like you say, it's horrendous to think that we only a few years ago we would speak about child prostitutes. Thankfully, that's not the case anymore. But language is so, so important for us to get right because actually the way we speak, speaking to the victims, speaking to families, when we speak about young people in meetings or when we write about them, there's a very fine line between if we're showing that we're supporting that young person or if we show that actually we don't really understand what's going on.

00:32:14:16 - 00:32:37:11

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So like you pointed out, if we're saying that young person's putting themselves at risk, that suggests actually we're saying they're making a choice, that they know it's their fault. Yeah. Therefore, it's very victim blaming was actually we need to name it. You know, we're worried that this person is being exploited, that they're being groomed when we talk about sexual exploitation.

00:32:37:11 - 00:33:02:14

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

We need to be really clear that actually that young person's being sexually abused, sexually assaulted, they're being raped. You know, rather than saying that sexual activity with their groom. And that very much suggests that they're, you know, consensual to it when actually we know that they're being harmed. So language is really, really important. And we know that can have such an impact for children and families feeling supported or not.

00:33:02:16 - 00:33:32:13

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

You know, I'm a I'm a great believer in the way that we use language and the impact that it has. And and I say impact in terms of the impact on the victims and revictimizing victims as well. But also, I think importantly in the way that we as professionals approach our work. And I think there's a lot about that sort of subconscious use of language sometimes which which really has a stain on how we approach things like, say, if we are seeing somebody as they're putting themselves at risk, like, say, I think subconsciously it's they've were it's kind of slightly their fault really.

00:33:32:13 - 00:33:50:23

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And had they not done this. Yeah well it would have been okay in and again you hear that sometimes around abuse that's taking place particularly towards women and girls and that that kind of thing like well you know, if she hadn't dress like that, if she hadn't gone to that party, if she hadn't drunk, yeah, she wasn't drunk then.

00:33:51:00 - 00:33:59:08

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

But actually the impact that has both on the victim and the way that we approach working with families and children and recognize them as children first and foremost.

00:33:59:09 - 00:34:25:06

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Definitely it can definitely impact on the interventions and the safeguarding that we put in place. And if we're speaking to different professionals and we're trying to describe what is happening and if we, you know, it's suggest the person's put themselves at risk and choosing that choose and then it really, you know, can impact actually what intervention is then put forward or how we safeguarding these young people.

00:34:25:06 - 00:34:42:07

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So, so great responsibility that we have as professionals thinking about language. And I don't think I don't think people mean to cause harm is a very interesting to do, but actually is so important that we take a step back and reflect on what are we saying, how are we describing the situation.

00:34:42:09 - 00:35:01:01

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

So if you got any any sort of good examples, as I know, it always sounds a little bit strange to me in a way when I sort of talk about exploitation being a relatively new thing and only really it's like going back to child sex, sexual exploitation and Rotherham, Rochdale only ten years ago. I think we've come on a huge way since then.

00:35:01:04 - 00:35:22:17

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

I still think we've got, like you say, a way to go with it, but it always sounds a little bit strange. It seems quite commonsense now, doesn't it? Yeah, I guess sort of in that time and time in your role, have you got the sort of any, any sort of good examples where you've seen the work that you do or partners in the police or health or knowledge sector sort of working together to really kind of combat this?

00:35:22:19 - 00:35:42:15

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, I think yeah, I do have an example which I think is a really hard thing to measure success with exploitation because obviously we don't know when the harm doesn't happen as such. But a good example we had in one area of Somerset was when a certain area in the community was being raised as an area of concern.

00:35:42:15 - 00:36:08:21

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So by multiple people from education, from community groups, from police, and we did a really good piece of multi-agency work. And so we initially got together and had meetings with all these different agencies, with police, with schools, whoever was involved to really identify what young people we were worried about and to really identify what locations we were concerned about.

00:36:08:21 - 00:36:37:06

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So we were all clear on what the situation was. And then we then put in a little plan in place around how we were going to try and make this area safer. The local police worked really hard in changing up that area. I spoke to the local community members and councilors around making the area safer in terms of different restrictions when to go into that area, when you couldn't go in there.

00:36:37:08 - 00:37:10:24

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Physical adaptions, our family intervention service did a really good pilot and outreach pilot and their team went along each week to do visits to the children out in the areas. But really good relationship, really good rapport with all of these children got their views on what was going on. And we just saw a really good shift in terms of these young people feeling safe in their community because actually we can't find every area that appears to be unsafe and we can't put all restrictions on children.

00:37:10:24 - 00:37:28:11

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

But actually we need to work together to make things better, you know, migrate the risk as much as possible. And these children should be allowed out in the community and spend time with each other where they want. But actually, what were we doing to kind of tackle that problem in terms of the contacts? And that was really good.

00:37:28:11 - 00:37:37:22

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

I think we all worked really hard together and it was definitely a multi-agency approach because we had everyone working on that within the interventions to try and make a change.

00:37:37:24 - 00:37:59:08

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

You know, it's reminding me and I don't I think you may have been involved with this, but I just thinking about another situation similar to what you were talking about, where actually there was lots of work done involving local police. Yes. So a park warden, there's a burger van that was sort of working with and a local youth group and like, say, bringing all these partners together.

00:37:59:08 - 00:38:13:00

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And when we talk about everyone having that responsibility to safeguard children, actually that really sort of came into our own getting all of these people together, including, say, somebody that had a burger van and actually let's work together on this because because they were raising concerns as well, which was brilliant.

00:38:13:01 - 00:38:33:13

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, definitely. It's really important to bring in anyone in the community really that is able to contribute because actually children have some really good relationships, have lots of different trusted adults. And we say this all the time, but no one single agency can solve all of the concerns come they are so important that we all work together.

00:38:33:15 - 00:38:54:16

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

So just to kind of start rounding off again. So I guess two questions for you, for any for any sort of professionals listening to this podcast and as it may have sort of just picked up some of these ideas and think, actually, hang on, there is something I'm kind of aware of. What what advice would you give to other professionals around exploitation, around reporting concerns?

00:38:54:18 - 00:39:23:19

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah, So I'd say try and have really open discussions with that young person. You know, that you're worried and ask them what they think. And obviously I understand that not a lot of young people are going to step forward and say, yes, I'm being exploited. You know, they wouldn't even use that word, but just try and have that open dialog so that that young person knows that someone's there for them and that actually they've identified that there's a slight change that's that's really important to be consistent with that relationship building.

00:39:23:21 - 00:39:47:16

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

And then if you are that adult, this worried speaks the people around that child to try and build up that picture and then to kind of develop identifying if there's something going on. I would suggest completing the child exploitation screening tool, which you can find on the partnership website. And that's a really good tool in terms of trying to identify what changes of behaviors we are seeing and perhaps the unknowns.

00:39:47:18 - 00:40:13:20

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

And then kind of if needed, speak to schools or make referrals into the front door so we can have a look at that and see if there's any interventions. The Avon and Somerset Police website have the intelligence portal, which is for professionals to submit any intelligence, any information when they're worried about a child or an adult that has been exploited.

00:40:13:22 - 00:40:33:15

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

You can do that anonymously and you don't have to gain consent from the child. So I would urge everyone to do that. If you have a piece of information and there's always options, kind of bring up the consultation line just to get any further advice, but definitely share the concerns with those involved with that child bearing.

00:40:33:18 - 00:40:46:12

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Thank you, Chloe, and we'll put all the links for that into the description for this episode as well. I'm just thinking that I mean, you mentioned the child exploitation screening tool, which is which is really key there. Are there any kind of other tools with all some I'm thinking as well things like the Roth pathway.

00:40:46:12 - 00:41:12:15

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Yeah. So we're really pleased In Somerset, we've recently developed a pilot which is the child need risk outside the home plan, so referred to as Roth. And these plans read it knowledge that actually when a child has been exploited, the harm is within the community and outside the home and it just has a really targeted response to try and support that child.

00:41:12:16 - 00:41:39:01

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

And the family, as we know, is equally traumatic expense for the family. So there a new approach that we developed. They are chaired by a really knowledgeable and dedicated chair and she really brings together all professionals to be accountable and really look and actually what interventions can be put in the community. So that is approach we can take then children services if it is appropriate.

00:41:39:02 - 00:41:53:06

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

I think the other thing we need to recognize is, like we said, there's still a long way to go on that we need to kind of recognize that we can't ever rest on our laurels. But I think just to sort of credit to yourself I think it was certainly recognized the work that you do and your colleagues do within children's services, within things like that.

00:41:53:07 - 00:41:56:00

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

The recent Ofsted inspection, I think that's really highlighted within that.

00:41:56:02 - 00:42:18:23

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

We were really pleased someone did a really good job. So in the off said report last year it was recognized that actually we respond to victims well when actually we're doing quite a good job. And that's, you know, also credit to social care from intervention, youth justice, but also partners that we work with who help us every day.

00:42:19:00 - 00:42:28:06

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

So we were really, really pleased to receive that good report because actually everyone does a lot, really good work every single day. So I think to be proud of.

00:42:28:08 - 00:42:49:21

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Definitely, and we tend to kind of focus on where things go wrong. But I think it's important to learn from good practice as well. Yeah, I guess my last question to you would be you've obviously done a lot of direct work with young people. I know a lot of young people who are who have been exploited. What advice would you give them if if a young person was listening to this or parents and parent of a young person is listening to this, what advice would you give them.

00:42:49:23 - 00:43:17:19

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

For a young person? I would say that there's many people that care for you and help and you will be believed. And actually it might feel like an incredibly hard thing to acknowledge and come to terms of. But please speak out to a trusted adult because you will be believed, you won't be judged. And it's so important that you start to speak so that we can get the help and support that is needed.

00:43:17:21 - 00:43:45:18

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

And again, to family members, there's no judgment, there's no criticism. Actually, if a family members care for a child that has been exploited we know how hard that is for family members as well. And it might be that you just need a little bit of extra support. And that doesn't necessarily have to be from children's services that speak to school, speak to, you know, community members, whoever is around you, that could just offer a little bit of support so that family don't feel like they have to battle on their own.

00:43:45:20 - 00:44:04:14

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

I think that's important and that there's still that that perception. The social workers are there to remove children, you know, and particularly with families like you say, if if quite often young people can feel like there's no way out and there certainly is. And also for families thinking that this is something really, really difficult, we need to manage and we don't really know where to go with this.

00:44:04:14 - 00:44:11:22

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And actually, if we catch one such involved, that could at one remove my child. But actually that's not the case at all. It's it's about putting in that support and.

00:44:11:22 - 00:44:34:14

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

That Yeah, definitely. And I think that's why we really want to develop the risk outside the home plan because that really is the message that actually, you know, we know there is nothing the family could control or, you know, intervene with to change that exploitation has taken place, that actually sometimes families just need that little bit of a helping hand to to go through it so that that really is recognized.

00:44:34:14 - 00:44:44:07

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

We're not yeah we're not there to remove children in that respect. We want to work with families to better experiences and outcomes for children.

00:44:44:09 - 00:45:04:04

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

On that note, I think it's going to face to finish up. So Chloe, thank you so much for your time today. It's been great to catch up and really sort of talk this through and it's something I'm sure we're as part of the people we're going to explore sort of further as time goes on. We'll be sort of talking to the BMX team, the printing mission exploitation team that we mentioned, and also to Topaz as well.

00:45:04:04 - 00:45:13:20

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

So if anybody listening to this is going to pick their eyes up around that, we will be exploring that and further episodes. So, Chloe, thank you so much. Thanks for coming in today. It's been great to talk to you.

00:45:13:20 - 00:45:15:04

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Thank you very much for having me.

00:45:15:06 - 00:45:15:22

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Absolute pleasure.

00:45:16:02 - 00:45:17:13

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

Take care. Thank you.

00:45:17:15 - 00:45:39:11

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

Bye. As always. If you'd like find out more details on the topics discussed in today's episode, please go to the SSCP website at Somerset Safeguarding Children dot org UK, where there is also a dedicated child exploitation page. Also, you can also find out further details on the work of Chloe and her team, as well as wider information relating to exploitation.

00:45:39:17 - 00:45:57:03

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

By going to any of the links in the description for this episode. If you have any questions or comments arising from today's episode or like to be involved in future episodes, we'd love you to get in touch with us at the Peapod@Somerset.Gov.UK once again, I'd like to give a huge thank you to Chloe for joining us.

00:45:57:08 - 00:46:10:07

Steve Macabee - SSCP Training Manager

And as always, I'd like to thank you for listening. My name is Steve Macabee and I'm the training manager for the Somerset Safeguarding Children Partnership, and I look forward to joining us again next time at the P Pod.

00:46:10:09 - 00:46:13:23

Chloe Deverell - CSC Team Manager for Child Exploitation

That work together to help keep children safe.