Sexual Abuse & Harassment in Schools - Child on Child Abuse

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Welcome to the pod.

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Steve Macabee - Host
Hello and welcome to the Pod, the Partnership podcast from the Somerset Safeguarding Children Partnership. I'm really excited today to bring you today's podcast because I'm joined by members of Youth Parliament today really talking about their experiences and very keen to talk to you about a subject that we're looking at today, which is about sexual abuse and harassment in schools.
Now this is a topic that was very much highlighted going back to 2021, originally very much coming into the public focus, looking at the everyone's invited website, which, if you're not familiar, came out in 2020, really just inviting testimonials from child young people about any sexual abuse and harassment that they've experienced. And to date there have been over 50,000 individual testimonials posted to that.
Now, I think it's important to pick up from this because what that really highlighted was the need for that and that very much coming originally from the murder of Sarah Everard, placing a sexual abuse and violence towards women and girls very much on the public agenda. So coming out from this, there were quite a number of significant changes that took place.
And one of the most significant changes on this topic very much come about from the introduction and the updates to keeping children safe in education 2021, which is highly focused in this area here. So this is something we're going to pick up on today. And so I'm very pleased to say that I'm joined from by members of the Parliament today to talk to us about their experiences here.

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Steve Macabee - Host
So if we can just do some introductions to start off with. Abby, Can I come to yourself?

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Abigail
Yes, Hello. My name is Abigail and I'm from the Somerset Youth Parliament Llantrisant Group. So one thing I like to do is usually I just work underneath people's campaigns and a couple of members of families of youth comment I'll talk to you today, but I usually work under them and help them to collect statistics and stuff and also testimonials from friends and family, stuff like that.

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Steve Macabee - Host
Okay. Thank you. Abby. We come around.

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Joe
Hi, I'm Joe Fowler. I'm an elected member of this parliament and I run a campaign on mental health and wellbeing.

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Jess
Hi, I'm Jess and I'm a current member of the advisory group. 

Jasmine
Hi, I'm Jasmine Fowler. I'm an elected member of Parliament and I've run a campaign on youth crime, safety and empowerment.

00:02:35:11 - 00:02:44:21
Steve Macabee - Host
Brilliant. Thank you very much, guys. Actually, before we before we get into this, you've mentioned youth parliament and you're members of youth Parliament. Could somebody explain what this is for anybody who doesn't know?

00:02:44:22 - 00:03:13:08
Joe
Yes. So if parliament is a it's nationally, a nationally run organization as run by the BBC, and it is for young people aged 11 to 18. So each county, I think, has, I believe, as free elected members of parliament. So depending on the county in Somerset, every two years we run elections. So me and Jazza elect two members of Parliament and each member runs a campaign which they choose when they're being elected until they get elected on.

00:03:13:10 - 00:03:39:07
Joe
So mine being mental health and wellbeing Jasmin's is youth safety in the Parliament. And then we have another MP Ali, who runs a campaign on diversity and respect. So we mainly focus on these three campaigns, but then we also focus on many other issues. In Somerset every year, the BBC and Youth Parliament nationally and the national vote will make your mark where young people vote on the topics that they think are most important.

00:03:39:09 - 00:03:49:22
Joe
So we also put a lot of work into those topics. So I mean, overall, I think our main focus is on getting these youth voice into places of power to make change for them.

00:03:49:23 - 00:04:11:16
Steve Macabee - Host
Lovely. Thank you, Joe. So actually, I think a lot of today actually comes from a lot the work of youth parliament have done. And in particular, Abby, you and I had a conversation recently about some of the work you've done around the topic we're looking at today around sexual violence, investment, and particularly the work that you did with the children's commissioner recently, which was to tell us a little bit about that.

00:04:11:18 - 00:04:53:17
Abigail
Yeah. So I remember first hand about children's commissioners when they were coming to speak to use Parliament. So Kate, who usually helps like she helps people got supervises us, tells us, oh, these people are coming over to kind of give your opinions and your views around sex. And I suppose specifically pornography. So one thing that they did was I can't remember what website it was, but they had us type anonymously the words we associate with certain things, for example, pornography or something to do with just sex in general or healthy relationships and just getting our opinions on that for a campaign that they found themselves in their own company.

00:04:53:19 - 00:05:30:11
Abigail
And during that, I decided to present something and PowerPoint really. And it was just like, what I've seen to do with sexual abuse and some sort of sexual harassment. And particularly what I spoke about was my stance on certain apps. So I looked to Twitter and Reddit to kind of see how young people attitude towards sex is. I brought up from the ages of young as 12, watching this sort of pornography videos with certain hashtags and I guess labels and sort of scenarios that can lead to misogyny and stuff like that.

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Abigail
So that's really where I met them. Yeah.

00:05:33:19 - 00:05:58:15
Steve Macabee - Host
Thank you. And I'm just picking up from that and obviously looking at the use of social media and hashtags and there's been a huge raising of awareness of this issue, particularly since 2020, 2021, following the murder of Sarah Everard and particularly the update to keeping children safe in education. And it's a question for everybody. Do you think this is an area that's that's particularly on the rise?
Is this something that's this always been there but just been picked up recently and highlighted and what people saw?

00:06:04:11 - 00:06:25:16
Jess
I personally I think it's an issue that's always been there, but I do think it's on the rise due to. So I think it's social media that certain people such as Andrew Tate like horrible, awful people spreading misogynistic views to young, impressionable, I mean people as young as nine and ten on social media. And they're incredibly impressionable young people who are going to be taking in.

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Jess
And we're seeing this. I mean, strong man, he appears to be taking in everything he says and taking it to sites. And it's you know, I would agree with Justin's. I think that the the impact that social media has had on young people when it comes to, you know, sexual harassment has been has been huge. You know, young people are then being exposed to more more images, more videos, more people like Andrew Tate or, you know, other things, you know, misogyny is spread throughout social media.

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Jess
And then this goes into young people's minds and then can be seen reflected in their behaviors at schools and harassment. You know, I think yeah, I think it's had a real negative effect. I mean, positive as well, but predominantly negative.

00:07:06:18 - 00:07:23:08
Steve Macabee - Host
Anybody else? The in terms of the use of social media, how do you think that that's changed? And do you feel that something has changed specifically over the last few years? Do you think this is something that's risen more coming out from COVID or not? And I begin to think.

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Abigail
I think that, yes, because of the COVID people came became like more heavily reliant on social media. I think that was one of the ways people felt connected after being locked at home for so long. So I think that most people also take a lot of social media things and events as facts. So a lot of people don't really see or don't question what they see anymore because it's so much part of our habits now as we see it as young as like 11, 12, spending four or 5 hours on social media day, you start to like pick up all the messages and subliminal messages that you get from like people like Andrew Tay as

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Abigail
such. And I definitely think with that as well, there's not enough help in general, especially for men in my beliefs. So I think that they gravitate towards stuff like that because that's what they see. They see, they think they've been heard. And then that's why they think that, you know, they can solve the issues and stuff like that by believing in those sort of ideologies inside Syria.

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Steve Macabee - Host
You mentioned the use of pornography right at the start there. And what impact do you think that's had?

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Abigail
Oh, I think, first of all, that's impacted the way we see other people, especially if we split up our generation into like genders, is is the fact that the way that we see management see women as such, but like I think definitely as well for people who are developing, I don't know because I feel like it's something that we do not see fully until people get tattoos and thirties and start really expressing what they believe.

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Abigail
Because at home people are just like on their phones and parents don't really see what they're believing, what things out they're like seen on social media. And then afterwards, I think as you get older, that's when you start to see the effects and the side effects of like sort of sort of being on pornography but constantly not being monitored, especially.

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Abigail
So as a.

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Steve Macabee - Host
Kid. Just do you think do you think adults are good at talking to young people about sex and relationships?

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Joe
No, I don't think they are. So I mean, obviously, there is there's some cases where they will be. But I know with me and Josh are talking about this every day, actually, even with like like when they talk about consent in schools, they also the T video, which is informative, but it sort of sums up the British attitude is we're not really going to talk about it or put it in a nice sort of like anecdote, but we're not actually going to talk about it.

00:09:55:20 - 00:10:10:16
Joe
I think I can understand why teachers and others would feel maybe sometimes uncomfortable talking about it, but I think it really this I don't think it should be a topic where you've been around the bush. Really, you should get straight to it and talk about it straight. Really.

00:10:10:18 - 00:10:41:08
Jess
I mean, I think it's something that adults don't really, particularly in schools, don't really know how to talk to young people about either. You know, at the moment, we're not seeing the training for the teachers in that in that teaching young people about healthy relationships and sex. And I think that that's really something that we need to push forward, be at the teachers and get the training that they have necessary to then teach students about healthy relationships instead of just putting up a PowerPoint and checking or checking all of the boxes on the tech list early.

00:10:41:10 - 00:10:57:09
Steve Macabee - Host
There's an interesting argument here sometimes with teachers, and there's an argument about whether teachers should be delivering those lessons or whether somebody specialist should be coming in to to teach these lessons. What are your thoughts?

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Jess
I think bringing in someone special as a new person, that these I mean, these young people might not be comfortable with. I don't think it's a very good idea. It's going to start. I mean, they'll be informative, but it's going to they're going to be around someone they don't know and they're not going to be feel comfortable to ask questions or I personally, I think it should be done in schools, but I also think it should be.

00:11:16:21 - 00:11:28:14
Jess
I think it's a job of parents as well to have this conversation with their children. But I also think that often adults don't understand healthy relationships, so they don't really have the room to teach either.

00:11:28:16 - 00:11:41:02
Steve Macabee - Host
Yeah, it's interesting. I thought there was an argument to say, actually, if you get somebody specialist in to come and teach a specific subject, it's almost kind of making it not taboo, but something kind of very specialist, very different.

00:11:41:04 - 00:11:58:14
Joe
To the problem with bringing in a specialist would be they'd be good for that short period that that. But what if then someone has a question a week later and the specialist won't be there? So the teacher needs to be out. I think regardless whether you bring a specialist or not, the teacher needs to be able to talk about that as well.

00:11:58:16 - 00:12:15:23
Steve Macabee - Host
Brendan Thank you. I'm so it's something we you feel is seeing. We're seeing on a rise. More recently we talked about COVID and also the impact of that. And actually just on picking up on that, there was another interesting bit of research was a bit of a theory at the moment in terms of COVID and the impact of COVID.

00:12:15:23 - 00:12:38:19
Steve Macabee - Host
And obviously, when we say things online, you know, we know that people are much more confident to say things that they would never say face to face with somebody. And there is a bit of a kind of theory of coming out from lockdown, as you like you mentioned, maybe a lot of people spending a lot of time online and then coming back into into kind of real life again, but still conversing in that way where they think it's okay to be saying these things.

00:12:38:24 - 00:13:00:16
Abigail
And I definitely agree. I think from my point of view, when I see like, for example, scrolling Instagram, I've seen a like a sudden rise and spike in like eight comments. So particularly one thing I'm quite interested in is like economics and finance. So I, I quite like to like look at videos of people talking about what you should do, what you shouldn't do.

00:13:00:18 - 00:13:23:15
Abigail
And I see misogyny a lot underneath women who teach that sort of stuff. So a lot of comments will talk about something along the lines of you shouldn't be teaching this. Women need to like stick to doing their jobs in their kitchens and beliefs around that. And I know for a fact sometimes you look at these people's profiles and it's like Maxwell 30 for kids.

00:13:23:17 - 00:13:45:06
Abigail
It's really shocking, actually, that people get this confidence from being able to speak online in comments and say the most horrendous things and get away with it. I definitely think that after you get out of lockdown, sometimes you see a spike in behavior of this, I don't know, some sort of arrogance. Like even if I say this or I do this, you can't affect me.

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Abigail
You can't get me into before I do sort of thing. So, yeah, it's really shocking, honestly.

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Steve Macabee - Host
So what about social media then? What what sort of things are we seeing on social media in which which sort of platforms or is it across the board?

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Jess
Oh, the logo. Ibiza. I think people use social media for power. They can say what they like and it can't. It can't get to them, it can't hurt them. It's they're safe behind their screen, which I think is ridiculous because you may be think you're leaving like a hateful comment on someone you don't like, but other people are seeing that that has an effect, not just on the person you're saying it to, but on other people around you.

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Jess
Seeing that and thinking, oh, they think like that. Maybe that's how I should think too. And then they're looking into that sort of like the interesting kind of hateful speech. And people are picking up on that and like, taking that in. And I mean, it's not it's not improving per generation anymore. We're getting worse about a thing when it comes to hate speech.

00:14:38:10 - 00:14:59:21
Jess
I personally think I think particularly for for children and young people, I mean, we've already seen that there's not been enough restrictions on on some social media. I think TikTok has recently had a huge fine for not having enough restrictions for for under 12 year olds. And then there's also, you know, we've seen this throughout media in general with pornography not being enough restrictions for young people and children.

00:14:59:23 - 00:15:17:16
Jess
But I think that part of the problem stems from schools and the social media is only really a new thing. You know, I think it's probably been around like 20 years now. You know, how can you expect these teachers, these adults, to then be teaching children about the do's and don'ts of social media? I think it's all really on a checklist.

00:15:17:16 - 00:15:52:15
Jess
It's all on the, you know, just what the schools are being told that they need to teach. But it's it's not good enough. It's not really impacting young people in the way that it should. You know, you have maybe a couple lessons on fake news or, you know, what not to believe. But, you know, you you're telling young people, you know, that they then need to, you know, make up their own minds as to what's fake, what's real, what they should believe, what they shouldn't believe, you know, instead of actually implementing restrictions, you know, doing more lessons, having people come in to talk to young people, you know, it's really not good enough, in my

00:15:52:15 - 00:15:53:11
Jess
opinion.

00:15:53:13 - 00:16:14:22
Joe
I think the problem is social media changes so fast. But you don't you know, you might they said you might get one lesson on the dangers of social media. But then this. There's always new dangers that pop up and new things that change. I, I think for me, the the big problem that has happened on social media is that I think there's been there's a lack of positive male masculine role models.

00:16:14:24 - 00:16:42:17
Joe
And I think that lack of that, the commerce almost went too far the other day. The other way of of masculinity was a bad thing. I mean, that basically created a space for people like and duty to come along and say and to be really quite toxic. And I think if there was more positive male role models that men could look up to, then it wouldn't have gone to the point where you see all these young boys looking up to people like on duty.

00:16:42:19 - 00:16:47:00
Joe
I think that's probably where where they start problems stem from.

00:16:47:02 - 00:16:56:19
Steve Macabee - Host
When you see this gap here and suddenly somebody saying, hey, you know, this is how to fill that gap, this is what it should be, this is what it should be like, and this is what it's like to be a real man. Yeah, actually.

00:16:56:21 - 00:17:20:16
Abigail
I don't think I could I couldn't agree more with what he said because I definitely see it as well. And I remember sometimes we would watch Romeo and Juliet in English literature, and then the boys would be like, Oh yeah, she's good now because she's had, you know, sex and stuff. And I remember all these comments and then some lines that popped up and then they won't tell you themselves, but you know, that's who they look up to by their actions and stuff like that.

00:17:20:21 - 00:17:40:12
Abigail
And I couldn't agree more that there are any positives. Male role models. I really wish, especially with like rappers and musicians, most of the guys you hear some of the stuff they say and you look at some of the musicians and their relationships with other women as well, how they've treated that access and stuff. And it's like, Wow, it's crazy.

00:17:40:14 - 00:18:08:01
Jess
I think there's a reason there's no positive male role models on social media is because people thrive on drama and hate, and people will say whatever they think is is shock factor to get attention. I think although Andrew, I think through and through is a horrible person. I don't think he believes all of the things he says. It's shock factor to get attention and he's getting that attention and people are feeding that attention, whether they're saying he's bad or good or they're still giving him attention, they're giving him a platform.

00:18:08:07 - 00:18:12:21
Jess
And I think that's the problem, is good people are giving people a platform.

00:18:12:23 - 00:18:22:07
Steve Macabee - Host
It's this culture of clickbait, isn't it? Yeah, give a good headline, somebody to click on it. Even if they click off it, you know, it's still that clicks and and getting that headline then no matter what I think you do see that.

00:18:22:07 - 00:18:29:14
Joe
Well it does it doesn't matter why people are watching the videos if they're watching it in disgust that they still make money on this.

00:18:29:16 - 00:18:41:20
Steve Macabee - Host
So what about your own personal experiences of this in terms of, you know, your day to day live lives? Is this something you see personally all the time? Is it kind of one off events? What sort of things do you see?

00:18:41:22 - 00:19:03:04
Jess
I think it's everywhere. I think people who say they haven't seen it or experienced it. I think you're saying you've not seen some sort of sexual harassment in your life. You're lying. It's everywhere. There is no way you can have seen it. It's on the streets in our classrooms, which I think is the most worrying. And it's it's everywhere.

00:19:03:06 - 00:19:05:12
Abigail
Very confused. Love at first sight.

00:19:05:13 - 00:19:29:11
Steve Macabee - Host
Will be lost at first light. It must have helped, right? When trust first took on the jumped, you know, riots, you know, for new hires. Some of those nights more than love stories tops cropped skirt stop at the top of their thighs and the boys got hungry. Look in their eyes. They want to be grown up and have respect, you see.

00:19:29:13 - 00:19:30:06
Steve Macabee - Host
But the acts.

00:19:30:06 - 00:19:31:18
Abigail
In uneducated.

00:19:31:18 - 00:19:42:20
Steve Macabee - Host
Sexuality and in terms of Keith and Julie's even education, that was obviously very focused on schools and education, would you say this is an education issue or a much larger issue?

00:19:42:22 - 00:20:08:14
Joe
But I think it's both. It is a larger issue. But then there's their own issues within education. I know before I've heard stories and I've seen personally where there's been an incident in school and it's not really being dealt with. I can think of one particular incident comes to mind where the perpetrator, he was in a car. I think he was in a position of power in school at heavyweight head to head, boy, something like that.

00:20:08:16 - 00:20:28:05
Joe
And the teachers found out about this and they didn't take that away from him. But everyone knew and he admitted to it and it was just dealt with in a really, really poor way that left the victim feeling so hard done by this person was still she was told to stop talking about it, even.

00:20:28:07 - 00:20:29:07
Steve Macabee - Host
As in the victim.

00:20:29:07 - 00:20:49:17
Joe
The victim was told to stop talking and they almost the focus was almost on him. You don't want to ruin his life. You don't want to ruin his schooling. And he wasn't really thinking about the victim much. And I think I think both of them were failed, really, because I think he he needed to learn that what he did was wrong in his mind.

00:20:49:17 - 00:20:59:05
Joe
He still kept that position of power in the school. And she obviously felt like she didn't have a voice. And it was that they weren't treating her right. Yeah.

00:20:59:05 - 00:21:24:00
Jess
So anything was shocking to me is that we've we've had stories of of young people of that have who have been in this position where they've where they've done something, they've, you know, harassed somebody and then have then asked for help for themselves. The perpetrators have then been asking for help in admitting what they did is wrong and that they, you know, have basically been calling out to teachers to help them with that.

00:21:24:00 - 00:21:41:20
Jess
And and it's kind of been something that's just been pushed under the rug because there's not enough support for perpetrators, let alone victims. You know, it's not just one issue. We can't just be focusing on the victims of sexual harassment when that's not you know, when it's if we're not focusing on the perpetrators, then surely it's just going to continue.

00:21:41:20 - 00:21:50:11
Jess
It's just going to be something that's a continuing cycle when there should be, you know, both they both people should have support.

00:21:50:13 - 00:22:03:02
Steve Macabee - Host
Are there any examples where schools or other agencies have tried to tackle that the the issue and felt like they've been successful in it? But actually, in your experience, it's not it's not work. Like Joe mentioned.

00:22:03:04 - 00:22:21:24
Jess
I had a girl in my year. She's very good friend of mine and she was sexually assaulted aggressively, not on the school premises by a boy in our English class, and she sat next to him in English. They called this. She went to the school and they were like, I don't feel comfortable being around him. They called the police.

00:22:21:24 - 00:22:34:04
Jess
But she I mean, she was still sat next to him in English for four or five weeks to the point where I actually swapped seats with her because I didn't feel comfortable being in the same room, having those two sat next to each other. I thought, it's wrong.

00:22:34:06 - 00:22:34:21
Steve Macabee - Host
Thank you.

00:22:34:23 - 00:22:55:04
Jess
Anybody else? I think the school is a good way to tackle this, as is by, you know, hosting assemblies or hosting, you know, RSA lessons on sexual harassment. I remember I think I had maybe maybe three in my time at secondary school on, you know, like either whether that be in the form of assemblies or lessons where they'd now separate boys from girls and talk about sexual harassment.

00:22:55:04 - 00:23:17:05
Jess
And, you know, why is wrong, why shouldn't do it. But I can remember walking out of those those lessons or those assemblies and hearing the boys just talk, you know, really misogynistic, you know, kind of taken the piss a bit, you know, with it, you know, commenting on girls bums, commenting on people's like kind of just commenting really misogynistic stuff, not even for the sake of claiming it just because they've had that lesson.

00:23:17:05 - 00:23:36:10
Jess
And then afterwards they're coming out and kind of laughing about it and being like, Oh, that was so ridiculous. Why did why did we have to sit through that? So I think there's definitely something wrong with the system that if we're having people come out of these lessons that are supposed to be insightful and supposed to make people come out feeling, Oh, wow, this is really an issue, you know what can we do about it?

00:23:36:12 - 00:23:37:12
Jess
So yeah.

00:23:37:14 - 00:24:02:02
Joe
The problem with these things is that with especially with the separating the boys and the girls, I think they were often the most so quite attacked as a general group. But it's obviously it's a small number of people, the people who have committed these things. And I think that's not the way to go about it, making them feel attacked as a whole, because then, like you said, it just just angers them and they're more like to make those comments.

00:24:02:04 - 00:24:24:14
Jess
I feel like the gender split is making it worse because, yeah, again, it feels like an accusation. It feels like you're being yeah, because you're being attacked, but it's supposed to be education. But if you feel like you're being accused, you're not going to take any of it. And and I also think the gender split policy education as well because you're suffering it because obviously men do experiences, but it is mainly women.

00:24:24:18 - 00:24:52:17
Jess
And if you're separating the perpetrators from the victims, they don't get to hear the experiences that they they might put people through in the future. An interesting thing for for me at my secondary school is I remember we once had a lesson on sexual relationships and then they they'd split the classes, boys and girls. Now, I didn't really see why they would split the classes, split genders for a sexual relationships lesson.

00:24:52:17 - 00:25:07:10
Jess
When surely, you know, you're supposed to be teaching both. But like, what are they teaching that's different? What they teach in girls is different to boys, when surely the whole point of having a healthy relationship is that both, you know, both everyone involved is, you know, communicating together.

00:25:07:12 - 00:25:15:03
Steve Macabee - Host
So it seems that everyone's experience of sex and relationship lessons being taught split.

00:25:15:05 - 00:25:33:22
Abigail
I think for me, I don't remember it being split at my primary school, so I could just go for it also for primary as well. Well, for the primary school I went to was split by gender, so it was a girls only school. And I remember going into secondary school and being like, Oh, those boys next to me.

00:25:33:24 - 00:25:56:08
Abigail
It's like it was so weird and it was so like just abnormal for me. But for my secondary school in particular, like a lot of people were saying before, it was just ticking boxes really. So we were having an assembly. And I remember once my principal talking about how after Sarah, everybody was like, Oh yeah, I'm going to talk about rape today.

00:25:56:10 - 00:26:18:19
Abigail
Like, so when he said that. But he was like, By the way, my opinion is that men can't be raped. So yeah. So yeah, he's in school. That was in school, in assembly for 11 years. I remember looking around and I see everyone being like, What? Especially the guys who are like, That's not fair. You can't say that because then it again goes into that binary of men against women.

00:26:18:19 - 00:26:30:04
Abigail
And men are the bad guys Are all the victims? In most cases, yes. But it's not. It shouldn't be that like black and white sort of thing. That's one thing I remember particular.

00:26:30:06 - 00:26:40:20
Steve Macabee - Host
It's a good. What would be your advice? Do you think it's better to to keep mixed genders as you mentioned jazz or I can see some some nods going around. Yeah.

00:26:40:22 - 00:27:01:14
Jess
Yeah. I think it would be better if if you know, they, they kind of taught these things more universally because it's just cutting causing more of a divide and more room for, you know, misogynistic comments. So and like we were talking about earlier in schools as well that, you know, they they they tend to you know, have been trying to bring up more positive female role models for the women in schools.

00:27:01:14 - 00:27:13:03
Jess
But again, like I think it would be really great if the schools if they did bring up these male male role models as well so that it wouldn't leave as much room for this misogyny that we are seeing in schools and this harassment that we're seeing.

00:27:13:05 - 00:27:31:14
Steve Macabee - Host
So so there's a sense of not just tackling it as kind of one off special assemblies or kind of one off special kind of talks or and not kind of making it something that's special taboo, different from everything else, but more kind of integrated in. It's going to be something to do.

00:27:31:16 - 00:27:49:18
Jess
I mean, the majority of schools at the moment, they they do what's on the curriculum and that is the bare minimum. And that, you know, and that needs to be it needs to be changed. It needs to be something that you are taught throughout school rather than just a few lessons. You know, check that off the books and then, you know, that's done for the next three as.

00:27:49:20 - 00:28:01:11
Steve Macabee - Host
So what about what about good examples of how anybody in my experience has been been tackled quite effectively within schools? Then we're going to good experiences or good examples.

00:28:01:13 - 00:28:18:06
Abigail
I've got one memory from English and I remember it's not it's not a really good example, but I guess is one of the best I've seen. It was where one of the guys made a comment on one of the female teachers who a lot of the guys had been they had been harassing her. They say, Oh yeah, she's hot.

00:28:18:06 - 00:28:35:09
Abigail
They make sexual comments about her. And then any time she would walk around, they'd all be like, stand out, fight and stuff. And I remember one of the teachers heard the comments in the classroom and she like she went off on him. She told him and all the guys that he was friends with like, Oh, you can't be.

00:28:35:11 - 00:28:55:20
Abigail
You're like playing into misogyny. You can't be doing that. She reported him. She got him out of the classroom for like a couple lessons. I remember that. And it was one of the best. I think I've been handled, but I think he still wasn't taught anything new. So the guy who made this comments about her was he taught anything other than don't do it again.

00:28:55:20 - 00:29:08:18
Abigail
Otherwise you can be probably suspended, that sort of thing. But I remember her reaction being one of the ones I've actually seen otherwise. Most teachers just ignore it, you know, pretend it has happened.

00:29:08:20 - 00:29:24:04
Jess
The fact that that's the best example you've experienced is because, I mean, that's the bare minimum is dealing with someone making comments like that is to deal with them. And I think the lesson that would just be to ignore, you know.

00:29:24:06 - 00:29:33:10
Steve Macabee - Host
So what would you what advice would you give to to schools, to teachers, to other agencies, to parents about the best way to to kind of address the issue?

00:29:33:12 - 00:29:58:09
Abigail
I think one thing I want everyone to remember is that there has to be maintained. You don't just have a you have to like, maintain it. So I think it should be something that you do almost regularly, like a hobby or something that. So I think as well, I feel like a lot of teachers can use just their own initiative maybe to be able to solve without talking to the person about like harassment is like this and this.

00:29:58:09 - 00:30:24:11
Abigail
What you do is harassment, even though you feel like it's normal and pointing out and also teaching them in a good way, but also, I think I found a lot of websites recently that teach about like sexual happiness and stuff. I remember this one YouTube channel was called a men's org and it teaches young people in these cartoony ways how to deal with sexual relationships, how to deal with being pressured into not wearing a condom or something and stuff like that.

00:30:24:11 - 00:30:36:03
Abigail
And I think we need to share those type of stuff because it teaches the people not necessarily about like the perpetrators of it, which are two things at issue, but it does teach. I think that's what we need to have.

00:30:36:03 - 00:30:40:00
Steve Macabee - Host
Without overdoing it and playing the cup of tea video. Yeah, over and over again.

00:30:40:02 - 00:31:02:21
Jess
That I think we just need to stop treating, you know, sex and relationships as something that we don't really talk about that, you know, we kind of pushed to the side and the same with, you know, sexual harassment. It it shouldn't be something that we just kind of shove under the rug, really. And and in school, like, I guess opening up as more of a conversation rather than a lecture on, you know, do this, don't do this, do this, don't believe this.

00:31:02:23 - 00:31:22:17
Jess
You know, it should be more of an open conversation of, you know, informatie for young people where they where they feel like they're in a safe space and can actually communicate with teachers better. And I think if we have that, then we're going to be coming up with better solutions to tackle the sexual harassment in schools. And more people are going to be coming up and speaking up.

00:31:22:17 - 00:31:32:24
Jess
And, you know, same with same with men as well, really speaking up with them. If they see something, if their friends are doing something and bringing in those positive male role models.

00:31:33:01 - 00:31:45:06
Steve Macabee - Host
Don't be afraid of the conversation. So just to kind of round off, then do it. Is anybody got any advice for any young people who might be experiencing any of this at all?

00:31:45:08 - 00:32:17:11
Jess
Form your own opinion. Don't listen to what your mates are saying, form your own opinion. Just because they're saying that women belong in the kitchen and that they're more intelligent. Just listen. Also listen to listen to it and listen to people who are experiencing this. Listen to the people who go through this day daily. Daily. Because it is daily of that harassment is and take that on board and think about your mother or your sister or if you were in that position, how would that make you feel?

00:32:17:13 - 00:32:21:16
Steve Macabee - Host
And for anybody, any advice for any any victims at all?

00:32:21:18 - 00:32:42:03
Jess
I just say, don't be afraid to speak up. Don't be afraid to talk about it. You know, we all know it's hard to talk about it. If something has happened to you and you are a victim of sexual assault or harassment, you know, it's it's not something that you're encouraged to exactly speak up about, but just do it because the more the more people that we have standing up for this, the less it's going to happen.

00:32:42:05 - 00:33:04:07
Abigail
I think I would also say to the victims to try and kind of find social media, is that help you feel okay and help you try not to. Because one thing I do see is a lot of victims of post on social media about what happened, but all they do is get comments from people who say, oh, well, what were you wearing and stuff like that, so try and find out other sides of social media that really do hope.

00:33:04:08 - 00:33:28:05
Abigail
And I do think it takes a while to find it. But after you do you see a community of people trying to help, such as like discussions like this, podcasts and stuff like that and amazing work that I saw on YouTube as well that teaches. I really do think that you can find stuff of people that are supportive rather than like, I don't know, Twitter groups or whatever, people who are trying to blame you and put the blame on to you.

00:33:28:11 - 00:33:29:19
Abigail
So as.

00:33:29:21 - 00:33:47:05
Steve Macabee - Host
Well. Guys, thank you very much for your time today. I think it's been a really very useful conversation. I've certainly got a lot to take away from it and and hopefully other people have as well. So thank you very, very much for your time. Thank you for your voice that has been so important. And we'll speak again at some point again in the future, I'm sure.

00:33:47:07 - 00:33:48:12
Steve Macabee - Host
Thank you very much indeed.

00:33:48:12 - 00:33:53:01
Jess
Thanks.

00:33:53:03 - 00:34:23:10
Steve Macabee - Host
My thanks again to Joe Jaz, Jess and Abby from Youth Parliament for today's podcast. If you've been affected by any of today's discussion, we'd like to find out more about the work of the youth Parliament and please see links and details in the podcast description. You can also find more information and resources on this subject by visiting the Somerset Safeguarding Children Partnership website is also training available relating to reactive and harmful such behaviors, including the book type like Tool and the gift on the ACP Training page.

00:34:23:12 - 00:34:41:04
Steve Macabee - Host
If you have any questions or comments on today's podcast, we would like to be involved in future episodes. Please contact us at the Peapod at Somerset Milk of the UK. Thank you again for listening today and I look forward to you joining us next. Time at the Peapod.

00:34:41:06 - 00:34:44:03
Jess
Let's work together to help keep children safe.